Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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407 posts

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#2941686 14-Jul-2022 00:57

Doesn't make sense though, like a fair few of the other rugby laws... he was making a positive attempt to catch the ball, so him or any other players shouldn't be punished for it.

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Handle9

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#2941687 14-Jul-2022 01:06

I think they made it black and white in response to it being applied inconsistently and subjectively. Stevenson only makes that play successfully 10-20% of the time. He’s at full stretch with one hand rather than it being a more straight forward intercept where he could realistically catch the ball.

It’s applied consistently so it’s really up to the players to understand the implications.

artbloke

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#2941688 14-Jul-2022 01:49

Yeah, the players know the laws & realize they have to adapt to them, but silly laws like this one definitely don't help the game - on this occasion he wasn't going to catch it on the full, but in general you have a decent chance of catching those one-handed ones... no way should he have got a yellow for it, can understand the logic if a player knocks the ball downwards, then they definitely deserve to be carded.

networkn

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#2941706 14-Jul-2022 08:59

artbloke:

Yeah, the players know the laws & realize they have to adapt to them, but silly laws like this one definitely don't help the game - on this occasion he wasn't going to catch it on the full, but in general you have a decent chance of catching those one-handed ones... no way should he have got a yellow for it, can understand the logic if a player knocks the ball downwards, then they definitely deserve to be carded.

The determination on whether a player could realistically have caught it, is if they can touch it a second time in my view. Even if the second touch wasn't full touch or it results in a knock-on, it shows the player was close enough that it was possible to catch it. The problem is, the more parameters you add, the more complex the rulings become and the more grey area you create.

The rules around this have been in place a couple of years at least, all the players know the rules.

I don't think he could have probably could have caught it, but if he could he would have had to dived for it and would have gone over the touchline. If he had caught it but gone into touch, it would be interesting to see how they ruled it. Probably penalty only or knock on, scrum?

It's a Hero or Zero play, and it's also been refereed very consistently throughout.

itxtme

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#2941735 14-Jul-2022 09:46

Handle9:

It was a clear yellow, the same as Smith and Perese during the Australia England games.

If you go for an intercept with one hand when there's a break you better catch it otherwise it's a yellow card.

I am OK with that as long as its ruled that way ALWAYS. The problem is that the better the bobble the more likely it is called a knock on. If the rules on it were clear ie. a scoring opportunity then yellow no matter how you knock it on on attempted intercept.

In that case he clearly could have taken the ball, it was not impossible. So consistency in ruling is paramount

networkn

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#2941740 14-Jul-2022 09:49

itxtme:

I am OK with that as long as its ruled that way ALWAYS. The problem is that the better the bobble the more likely it is called a knock on. If the rules on it were clear ie. a scoring opportunity then yellow no matter how you knock it on on attempted intercept.

In that case he clearly could have taken the ball, it was not impossible. So consistency in ruling is paramount

He only touches it once, there isn't a bobble or multiple touch attempt to regather though right? (I can't find the clip right this second).

If that's the case he can't 'clearly' have taken the ball in.

invisibleman18

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#2941780 14-Jul-2022 11:36

Handle9:

It was a clear yellow, the same as Smith and Perese during the Australia England games.

If you go for an intercept with one hand when there's a break you better catch it otherwise it's a yellow card.

I'm no rugby expert so why was the Perese one not a penalty try given it was deemed to be deliberate foul play? Who are they suggesting was going to stop the winger scoring if the ball had beaten the outstretched Perese and he'd caught it given he was about 10m out from the line with noone in front of him? Similar to the Ireland one with the yellow card for the early tackle. Who are they suggesting would have been in the way of a try there? As I said, I'm no rugby expert so I'm unclear about when a penalty try would be awarded, but thought it was usually if it was almost certain a try would have been scored without the foul and the replays suggest that should have been the case for both of those.

tukapa1

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#2941784 14-Jul-2022 11:41

invisibleman18:

Handle9:

It was a clear yellow, the same as Smith and Perese during the Australia England games.

If you go for an intercept with one hand when there's a break you better catch it otherwise it's a yellow card.

I'm no rugby expert so why was the Perese one not a penalty try given it was deemed to be deliberate foul play? Who are they suggesting was going to stop the winger scoring if the ball had beaten the outstretched Perese and he'd caught it given he was about 10m out from the line with noone in front of him? Similar to the Ireland one with the yellow card for the early tackle. Who are they suggesting would have been in the way of a try there? As I said, I'm no rugby expert so I'm unclear about when a penalty try would be awarded, but thought it was usually if it was almost certain a try would have been scored without the foul and the replays suggest that should have been the case for both of those.

The test is that it stops a probable try. The law reads;

A penalty try is awarded between the goal posts if foul play by the opposing team prevents a probable try from being scored, or scored in a more advantageous position. A player guilty of this must be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off. No conversion is attempted.

itxtme

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#2941790 14-Jul-2022 11:53

networkn:

itxtme:

I am OK with that as long as its ruled that way ALWAYS. The problem is that the better the bobble the more likely it is called a knock on. If the rules on it were clear ie. a scoring opportunity then yellow no matter how you knock it on on attempted intercept.

In that case he clearly could have taken the ball, it was not impossible. So consistency in ruling is paramount

He only touches it once, there isn't a bobble or multiple touch attempt to regather though right? (I can't find the clip right this second).

If that's the case he can't 'clearly' have taken the ball in.

Sorry I thought the discussion was re the Aus card :/

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#2941792 14-Jul-2022 11:55

So many cards given its hard to keep track 😉

invisibleman18

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#2941793 14-Jul-2022 11:56

tukapa1:

The test is that it stops a probable try. The law reads;

A penalty try is awarded between the goal posts if foul play by the opposing team prevents a probable try from being scored, or scored in a more advantageous position. A player guilty of this must be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off. No conversion is attempted.

Thanks. In both of those cases a try looked almost certain to me.

networkn

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#2941895 14-Jul-2022 15:47

Whitelock back, I thought it was a mandatory 12-day stand down for this series?

More than a little surprised to see RTS play this test (or in fact make the national side full stop). At 29 I am wondering what question he is the answer to? I have nothing against the guy, I just wasn't blown away by him for the Blues with the exception of 2-3 moments.

Havilli needs to show that either he can handle the physicality or do some magic. Not every 12 needs to be a wrecking ball, so depending on the game plan he could be used for making the Irish question what he will do next.

My biggest fear this week, is that we will be SO fired up, we will lose control and end up with more cards, and that over-enthusiasm will see us make more handling errors, or push passes that shouldn't be made due to bad decision-making. We nearly gave away an intercept try when the reserves came on last week, 7 points aren't that easy to come by, so we shouldn't give them up easily.

Overall, I believe if we match the Irish in the tight give, show good discipline and kick well, we should beat Ireland by 10 points or more.

JPNZ

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#2942060 15-Jul-2022 08:40

networkn:

More than a little surprised to see RTS play this test (or in fact make the national side full stop). At 29 I am wondering what question he is the answer to? I have nothing against the guy, I just wasn't blown away by him for the Blues with the exception of 2-3 moments.

I hope Goodhue is injured because there is no way RTS is test standard yet...

networkn:

Havilli needs to show that either he can handle the physicality or do some magic. Not every 12 needs to be a wrecking ball, so depending on the game plan he could be used for making the Irish question what he will do next.

Overall, I believe if we match the Irish in the tight give, show good discipline and kick well, we should beat Ireland by 10 points or more.

I presume he is there for his kicking as BB has been terrible tactically this series. He never plays as well beside BB as Beauden always runs sideways and puts him under pressure. I wouldn't be surpised to see Havili have an average game because of BB.

We have replaced our best tight 5 forward (taukei'aho) with coles (lol), once again Ireland will beat us up in the forwards IMO and we are relying on the backs to spark some sort of miracle play to win the game. My opinion its going to be very close again and if Ireland can get their backline working we are in trouble

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artbloke

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#2942076 15-Jul-2022 09:25

A lot of the rules in the game are a shambles because they're open to too much interpretation.

artbloke

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#2942078 15-Jul-2022 09:36

Sat 16th July {Sky Stadium, Wellington} - 7.05pm

ABs : 1. George Bower, (13) 2. Codie Taylor, (68) 3. Nepo Laulala, (40) 4. Brodie Retallick, (94) 5. Samuel Whitelock, (133) 6. Scott Barrett, (50) 7. Sam Cane, (79) – Captain, 8. Ardie Savea, (61) 9. Aaron Smith, (104) 10. Beauden Barrett, (103) 11. Sevu Reece, (19) 12. David Havili, (15) 13. Rieko Ioane, (49) 14. Will Jordan, (14) 15. Jordie Barrett (38)

Reserves : 16. Dane Coles, (80) 17. Aidan Ross, (1) 18. Ofa Tu’ungafasi, (46) 19. Akira Ioane, (13) 20. Dalton Papalii, (14) 21. Folau Fakatava, (1) 22. Richie Mo’unga, (34) 23. Roger Tuivasa-Sheck* (0)

IRELAND : 1. Andrew Porter, 2. Dan Sheehan, 3. Tadhg Furlong, 4. Tadhg Beirne, 5. James Ryan, 6. Peter O’Mahony, 7. Josh van der Flier, 8. Caelan Doris 9. Jamison Gibson Park, 10. Johnny Sexton (c), 11. James Lowe, 12. Bundee Aki, 13. Robbie Henshaw, 14. Mack Hansen, 15. Hugo Keenan.

Reserves : 16. Rob Herring, 17. Cian Healy, 18. Finlay Bealham, 19. Kieran Treadwell, 20. Jack Conan, 21. Conor Murray, 22. Joey Carbery, 23. Keith Earls.

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