Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#2946466 26-Jul-2022 11:55

Handle9:
artbloke:

It's about each individual executing the basic skill sets well in their position, then you'll perform well as a team, and the playmakers taking the right options & executing them accurately, Ireland are, we are not... so yeah, they are not doing anything special.

By that that definition the 2015 All Blacks were profoundly average.

What ? ...how can you compare the 2015 ABs to the train wreck we have under Foster ? ...this huge mess started with the clowns on the NZRU Board selecting an incompetent head coach.

After the RWC, we need to change the whole NZRU Board & get the right people to do the job, otherwise we will continue to have the same ongoing problems.

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#2946532 26-Jul-2022 14:04

Go and read it again instead of ranting.

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#2946538 26-Jul-2022 14:36

I wonder how much of Foster retaining his job is that the two most likely replacements aren't really available? Schmidt doesn't want to travel and probably doesn't want the pressure, and Robertson 'isn't available' probably quite reasonably on many fronts.

I believe that Jason Ryan potentially could improve the forwards performance, but at the very least, whilst it would be nice to win one or more games in SA, it would be good to see the lineout function better, and accuracy at the breakdown. If our basic catch and pass works reliably and our kicking is more intelligent, then we could look more competitive. I wonder how many fans are expecting a full turn around in our fortunes who may be disappointed?

We haven't turned into a terrible Rugby team. We may not be the best, but even against a good Ireland team, we came back from 23-3 to within 5 points. If we had kept that momentum, it wasn't impossible to have won.

From what I've read, the people let go weren't reviewed well within the camp, twice. I don't consider it unreasonable that if a review is held and issues are raised, that an opportunity be given to rectify those issues. The Ireland series was the first chance to do that, and obviously, we/they didn't.

Not sure I'd agree with the narrative that Foster put his two assistants under the bus to save his own skin. From all accounts, he is a decent human being.

We have 13 months. I think it's entirely possible to improve significantly in that time.

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#2946541 26-Jul-2022 14:44

If Plumtree and Mooar reviewed that badly and have since been sacked then it’s a huge issue. NZR would have had to payout their contracts, at the minimum. Doing that on top of the money they paid Scarlets shows poor judgement at the least.

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#2946544 26-Jul-2022 14:51

Handle9: If Plumtree and Mooar reviewed that badly and have since been sacked then it’s a huge issue. NZR would have had to payout their contracts, at the minimum. Doing that on top of the money they paid Scarlets shows poor judgement at the least.

Well, the two issues are separate. How do you know how someone will perform in a job for certain until they are in it? Both were qualified and reviewed well where they were previously.

If they paid out a contract to get someone (Moar), that alone doesn't seem that out of the ordinary. I assume they will have had to do something similar with Ryan.

The question is, if there were no performance-based clauses in their renewed contracts, that would be poor judgement given they hadn't reviewed/performed that well until then.

It's somewhat unlikely we will ever know how much they were paid to exit their contracts.

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#2946560 26-Jul-2022 15:34

What “performance based clauses” are going to avoid a large personal grievance if they don’t pay out the contracts? Given they signed new contracts recently that wouldn’t stand up if it went to litigation.

It’s far more likely that they paid out on top of the contract as a full and final settlement.

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#2946563 26-Jul-2022 15:40

Handle9: What “performance based clauses” are going to avoid a large personal grievance if they don’t pay out the contracts? Given they signed new contracts recently that wouldn’t stand up if it went to litigation.

It’s far more likely that they paid out on top of the contract as a full and final settlement.

Why would they do that? If they paid the contract out in full, what reason could they have to lodge a complaint? They are essentially being paid (a lot) not to work.

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#2946569 26-Jul-2022 15:48

They could seek compensation for not being treated fairly and public hurt and humiliated. Being dismissed like this clearly damages their careers and they could argue they haven’t been given the opportunity to change things.

They may not have won but could have caused plenty of PR problems for NZR. It’s very common to pay off employees being made redundant to avoid legal action for this reason.

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#2946575 26-Jul-2022 15:56

Handle9: They could seek compensation for not being treated fairly and public hurt and humiliated. Being dismissed like this clearly damages their careers and they could argue they haven’t been given the opportunity to change things.

They may not have won but could have caused plenty of PR problems for NZR. It’s very common to pay off employees being made redundant to avoid legal action for this reason.

As you say they may not win a dispute of that nature, esp if they were paid out in full for their contracts. You may be right about what's gone on, but this isn't any different from any other sporting change of coaching situation. You see it almost monthly in the NRL for example.

They were qualified and well thought of in previous positions, it wasn't like they were picked blindly from the street, some times good people just don't work well in some environments. I don't have any proof they were or weren't good or if replacing them is a reasonable or unreasonable thing since I am not privy to their internal review, but if you take things at face value.....

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#2946582 26-Jul-2022 16:04

The original appointments were what they were but reappointing them then dismissing them after 3 tests is a massive screw up.

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#2946584 26-Jul-2022 16:14

Handle9: The original appointments were what they were but reappointing them then dismissing them after 3 tests is a massive screw up.

I thought the reappointment happened in May 21 or thereabouts?

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#2946586 26-Jul-2022 16:15

Handle9: Go and read it again instead of ranting.

Wasn't ranting - anyway, you're missing my point, in summary... Ireland are playing sensible rugby, we are not playing sensible rugby, can't make it any clearer than that.

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#2946589 26-Jul-2022 16:33

networkn:
Handle9: The original appointments were what they were but reappointing them then dismissing them after 3 tests is a massive screw up.

I thought the reappointment happened in May 21 or thereabouts?

Foster was renewed in August, the assistants in December.