Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Mad Scientist
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#2960464 28-Aug-2022 14:37

thermonuclear:

Ian Foster: "Quick Mark, who haven't I thrown under the bus yet to save my job ... get the strapper and the bag man in here!"

Apparently the ref is throwing a blind eye to Argentina not releasing our players after they tackle them

(Also when put to Cheika if his players were doing that, he said - in a very long winded way - yes)

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Handle9

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#2960476 28-Aug-2022 15:00

Handle9:

Handle9:
Kopkiwi:

Won't be getting out of the group at the WC. Genuinely wouldn't be surprised to see Argies do a number on us too, they will be fired up after smashing a decent Aussie outfit and our players will have fallen back on the "only need to show up" mentality.

So is NZ losing to Italy or Namibia or Uruguay??

Still waiting.

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#2960532 28-Aug-2022 18:45

Still waiting.

Take your pick bro, I wouldn’t back us to beat anyone with this muppet in charge.

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#2960540 28-Aug-2022 19:00

are we loosing because of the coach and his strategies or are we loosing because the players drop the ball or commit infringements? 18/25 puma points were off the back of all black infringements.

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#2960550 28-Aug-2022 19:56

Kopkiwi:

Still waiting.

Take your pick bro, I wouldn’t back us to beat anyone with this muppet in charge.

Are you putting your money where your mouth is?

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#2960636 29-Aug-2022 07:33

no one talking about Nic White's decision to milk a yellow card at the risk of conceding a 7 pointer ...

networkn

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#2960660 29-Aug-2022 09:05

There is just no objectivity in the majority of NZ Fans.

It seems in some ways to be the worst of the recent losses, and it hurts, but we led for 60 minutes and the areas of our game that haven't been great before, are coming along really well. Our lineout was functioning better than it had been, our scrum was totally dominant and we scored 2 tries to their one.

Our breakdown work still varies but is getting better certainly. Our tackling is becoming more dominant, and we are making the gain line significantly more. All up until around the 60-minute mark when the wheels seriously came off. Codie Taylor had a shocker of an evening. He and Coles have consistently underperformed this season.

What went wrong on Saturday night, was letting the pressure get to us, our discipline was abysmal (some penalties we gave away were brain-dead nonsense). We have not yet found the self-confidence to perform at the highest levels under pressure.

An alarming number of our players are not performing at the international level. We have a serious mental strength problem in my view. Enoka Gilbert was transformational for the AB's when he came in, but as much as I have been a big fan of his, I think it's time for someone new there.

Argentinas defense was a masterclass. Seriously seriously impressive. I think it's unfair to heap disgust on the AB's without giving an equal amount of praise to Argentina.

I really expected us to win this, and comfortably, I am really disappointed, but anyone who thought Ellis Park was going to mean the end of our inconsistent performances was seriously kidding themselves.

Ant Straughan made some interesting comments about the fact he doesn't believe that the coaches were responsible for the loss on Saturday night. No way is any coach telling the players to play like that. Discipline on field is a player problem, especially the nature of the infringements we made. You could see clearly how frustrated Foster was many times during the match. This is a guy who is telling his players one thing and seeing them not follow the script.

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#2960664 29-Aug-2022 09:24

networkn:

Ant Straughan made some interesting comments about the fact he doesn't believe that the coaches were responsible for the loss on Saturday night. No way is any coach telling the players to play like that. Discipline on field is a player problem, especially the nature of the infringements we made. You could see clearly how frustrated Foster was many times during the match. This is a guy who is telling his players one thing and seeing them not follow the script.

Ill discipline happens as a result of player frustration. Player frustration is the result of the game plan being disrupted and no solutions being offered by the captain or the coach. At the very least, you'd expect there to be a Keven Mealamu-like figure in the team to instill some discipline when the going gets tough. The absence of such on-field presence goes back to player selection and the coach, yet again.

Hello, Ground!

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#2960671 29-Aug-2022 09:46

Kookoo:

Ill discipline happens as a result of player frustration. Player frustration is the result of the game plan being disrupted and no solutions being offered by the captain or the coach. At the very least, you'd expect there to be a Keven Mealamu-like figure in the team to instill some discipline when the going gets tough. The absence of such on-field presence goes back to player selection and the coach, yet again.

I severely doubt that the coach told the players " Lets play All Blacks rugby style, no need to have alternate game plays/style if the opposition has plans to have a different game style to what we want"

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#2960672 29-Aug-2022 09:58

Kookoo:

Ill discipline happens as a result of player frustration. Player frustration is the result of the game plan being disrupted and no solutions being offered by the captain or the coach. At the very least, you'd expect there to be a Keven Mealamu-like figure in the team to instill some discipline when the going gets tough. The absence of such on-field presence goes back to player selection and the coach, yet again.

Ill discipline has many causes.

To be honest, I never saw anyone get an onfield spray by Mealaumu etc, and perhaps they need to get someone like that if that is really what is needed. Siya Kolishi absolutely ripped someone in one of the recent tests, there is a youtube video of it. I've never seen anything like it in my life. Told him if he ever did it again he'd be dropped.

It's taken us a while to get to this state, not everything is magically getting fixed overnight.

Foster might be the problem, but honestly, what I saw on Saturday night was 90% a player problem.

Our good performance in Ellis Park was totally Ryan/Schmidt. But our bad performances are 100% Foster?

These performances are totally unacceptable, I genuinely feel we should not have lost that test.

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#2960681 29-Aug-2022 10:27

Dingbatt:

In my opinion both Cane and Taylor should be dropped.

Cane has not been the same since coming back from his broken neck and no longer seems to be able to lead by example (in a McCaw or Read kind of way). His off the ball tackle of Matera was dumb, but also a great piece of acting on Matera’s part. Acting any Argentinian footballer would be proud of. The definition of insanity is to keep making the same mistakes and expect a different outcome. A Captain needs to be able to adapt the game plan. Cane (and the other senior players) don’t seem to be able to do this. I do concede that the pace of the game at international level and oxygen debt does hamper decision making, but they are highly paid professionals.

As for Taylor. A hooker has two specialist jobs on top of general field play.
1. Secure the scrum feed by hooking the ball back.
2. Throw the ball into the lineout such that your team secures possession.
I don’t know what kind of warm up routine he does before coming on as a sub, but it obviously doesn’t include enough calibration of his throwing arm. Three times at crucial parts in the game he failed.
In fact I believe the rot started when the complete front row was replaced at once. The forward drive, including two-up tackles just seemed to fade away.

On scrum dominance alone the ABs should have been able to win that match. But they don’t seem to be able to ‘win boring’ by forcing a scrum penalty in a kickable position and incrementing the score in threes. Particularly when rush defences are stifling their running game. And of course winning your own lineouts.

Unless the rules have been changed, I thought the tackler had to show a clear release of the tackled player and regain his feet before trying to secure a turnover. The final penalty awarded to the Argentinians was a classic example of this and extinguished any hope of a miracle comeback. (And had me swearing at the screen).

I agree with this entirely.

Earbanean

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#2960687 29-Aug-2022 10:49

networkn:

All up until around the 60-minute mark when the wheels seriously came off. Codie Taylor had a shocker of an evening. He and Coles have consistently underperformed this season.

The thing is, Taukei'aho didn't need to come off. That was a straight wrong call from the coach. Some people are saying you can't blame the coach for how the players play, but this is a clear area where you can only blame the coach.

It sounds like the props had minor injuries and our replacement props are good - so replacing them made sense. But they chose to swap hookers at the same time and replac one of the best players on the field with one who is in bad form. If that decision had not been made, we would probably have won. We'd already scored a lineout drive try. We had another opportunity to do the same, but the throw was crooked.

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#2960691 29-Aug-2022 11:03

Earbanean:

The thing is, Taukei'aho didn't need to come off. That was a straight wrong call from the coach. Some people are saying you can't blame the coach for how the players play, but this is a clear area where you can only blame the coach.

It sounds like the props had minor injuries and our replacement props are good - so replacing them made sense. But they chose to swap hookers at the same time and replac one of the best players on the field with one who is in bad form. If that decision had not been made, we would probably have won. We'd already scored a lineout drive try. We had another opportunity to do the same, but the throw was crooked.

I've watched an absolute crap ton of Rugby, I can't recall a single time where a hooker has played 80 minutes unless forced to by injury. Taylor hasn't been in his usual form, but he also hasn't been as bad as he was on Saturday night. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Had Foster of known that Taylor was going to play that uncharacteristically badly, I am sure he would likely not have brought him on. Taukei'aho can't play 80 minutes for the next 20 tests, and short of dropping Taylor and Coles, and bringing in a near untested Hooker from outside the squad, we need to work with getting our replacements to perform.

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#2960692 29-Aug-2022 11:10

Marika Koroibete had an absolutely amazing game for Australia against South Africa. That try-saving tackle was one of the most amazing things I've seen on a Rugby field in quite some time. The speed at which he covered the distance to reach one of the fastest wingers in the world was really quite something. As was his own try. Nick Whites dramatics were quite something to behold and a yellow card seemed OTT at the least. Having said that, I don't doubt for a second the FDC wouldn't have done the identical thing.

Earbanean

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#2960744 29-Aug-2022 11:49

networkn:

I've watched an absolute crap ton of Rugby, I can't recall a single time where a hooker has played 80 minutes unless forced to by injury. Taylor hasn't been in his usual form, but he also hasn't been as bad as he was on Saturday night. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Had Foster of known that Taylor was going to play that uncharacteristically badly, I am sure he would likely not have brought him on. Taukei'aho can't play 80 minutes for the next 20 tests, and short of dropping Taylor and Coles, and bringing in a near untested Hooker from outside the squad, we need to work with getting our replacements to perform.

No one is saying Taukei'aho had to play the full 80, but subbing him after 44 mins? There's a big diff between 44 and 80. With a calculator, I could probably work out what that is in minutes.

The other piece of that is the selection aspect. Taylor shouldn't be in the 23 at the moment. I disagree with you on this and think bringing in a new (near untested) hooker is exactly what we need to do. Not as starting No. 2, but on the bench. It worked a charm for the props. Aumua is probably considered the next cab of the rank. However, I think Brodie McAlister is the way forward. It's similar to how they went to Crusaders reserve prop Newell.

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