Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#1362505 10-Aug-2015 23:04

itxtme:
One thing is that if you pick purely on form, you lose team culture. A good team will manage the players who aren't at their best, give them support and space to improve and reap the benefits.

Give me rational reasoning behind why he should go to RWC? No we cant pick purely on form but you cant pick people purely on the fact that they might one day (soon hopefully) come back into any in-cling of form...

Good grief this was covered including pictures explaining it, but your mind is made up and that's that!

If Dagg had made this tackle, which resulted in try, knocked himself out, you'd be all over him for it, but Ben Smith doesn't stop the try, gets knocked out and he is a hero?

I found a youtube video of the AB's tries of 2013, and in a LOT of the tries that Ben Smith scores ON THE WING, the pass that allows him over the try line was by Dagg who drew attackers and handed a perfectly placed pass to Smith.

No doubt that will be poo poo'd too.

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networkn

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#1362506 10-Aug-2015 23:06

Kingy: Multi quote reply man. Multi quote reply. Don't need a separate reply for each one. Getting spammed with emails here

The quoting system of this forum is excruiating.

itxtme

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#1362519 10-Aug-2015 23:40

Patronizing much? I dont know what to say to you. Stats, proof and positional play count for nothing apparently.. I enjoy a good rugby debate, so please debate the facts.

I found a youtube video of the AB's tries of 2013, and in a LOT of the tries that Ben Smith scores ON THE WING, the pass that allows him over the try line was by Dagg who drew attackers and handed a perfectly placed pass to Smith.

I had to laugh out loud at this one. Its what we have all been saying to you - Dagg is a shadow of his 2013 self!

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#1362521 10-Aug-2015 23:46

itxtme: Patronizing much? I dont know what to say to you. Stats, proof and positional play count for nothing apparently.. I enjoy a good rugby debate, so please debate the facts.

I found a youtube video of the AB's tries of 2013, and in a LOT of the tries that Ben Smith scores ON THE WING, the pass that allows him over the try line was by Dagg who drew attackers and handed a perfectly placed pass to Smith.

I had to laugh out loud at this one. Its what we have all been saying to you - Dagg is a shadow of his 2013 self!

Actually most of the references were referring to much further back than that, like 2011. Pretty sure you'd find a similar thing for 2014.

Anyway you missed the point but I am too tired, and sick to worry about it now.

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#1362545 11-Aug-2015 07:28

networkn:
Jaxson:
Smithy100: The biggest thing for me was the reluctance to change tactics. Especially after the lessons of '07, the reluctance of "the leadership group" to change tack almost makes me wonder whether it was instructed from those above NOT to change.

There were no kicks through/behind the line.

Lol snap, I was just typing the exact same comment...

The AB's have an outstanding record doing what they have been doing up till now. We lose one game and every senior player and every single tactic they have employed for the last 10 years is "wrong".

Honestly, people amaze me.

Each year the AB's change a little bit, and their self believe in their game plan has got them wins time and time again. Some of them were close or ugly, but a wins a win.

I think its a little deeper than one game, the sentiments here. Samoa was a close scoreline, even with a B team, SA game was unimpressive, and Argies beat them since. If we had thrashed Samoa, say 34-9, strong win over SA, then a bad game against Oz (which even then was a close score line for a bad game and the Championship winners, I think there would be less negativity, and more of an anomaly. I dont see this as one anomaly game, its been like it since Samoa, IMO, and it got exposed against a team that matched us.

tdgeek

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#1362547 11-Aug-2015 07:30

networkn:
tdgeek: I'd like them to cancel those short passes. They look great, but what the benefit in passing 2 feet, maybe 3? When the later passed it was high, slow passes. Where are the flat, hard passes that take valuable half seconds away from the opposition's reaction time? I bet they are easier to catch than a swifty at 2 foot range.

Every time they do one, my heart is in my throat.

The long, flat hard passes? I think easier to catch than a quick shortie from the guy running next to you. And if either is dropped or mised, the longer passes create opportunities, the 3 feet passes just change whio is gonna get tackled

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#1362553 11-Aug-2015 08:01

You can't tell the ABs what pass to make on a forum. You need the right passes at the right situation.

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#1362644 11-Aug-2015 10:09

tdgeek:
networkn:
tdgeek: I'd like them to cancel those short passes. They look great, but what the benefit in passing 2 feet, maybe 3? When the later passed it was high, slow passes. Where are the flat, hard passes that take valuable half seconds away from the opposition's reaction time? I bet they are easier to catch than a swifty at 2 foot range.

Every time they do one, my heart is in my throat.

The long, flat hard passes? I think easier to catch than a quick shortie from the guy running next to you. And if either is dropped or mised, the longer passes create opportunities, the 3 feet passes just change whio is gonna get tackled

No the short passes are the ones that worry me.

I haven't seen the stats but I have seen them put players into space.

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#1362645 11-Aug-2015 10:22

tdgeek:
networkn:
Jaxson:
Smithy100: The biggest thing for me was the reluctance to change tactics. Especially after the lessons of '07, the reluctance of "the leadership group" to change tack almost makes me wonder whether it was instructed from those above NOT to change.

There were no kicks through/behind the line.

Lol snap, I was just typing the exact same comment...

The AB's have an outstanding record doing what they have been doing up till now. We lose one game and every senior player and every single tactic they have employed for the last 10 years is "wrong".

Honestly, people amaze me.

Each year the AB's change a little bit, and their self believe in their game plan has got them wins time and time again. Some of them were close or ugly, but a wins a win.

I think its a little deeper than one game, the sentiments here. Samoa was a close scoreline, even with a B team, SA game was unimpressive, and Argies beat them since. If we had thrashed Samoa, say 34-9, strong win over SA, then a bad game against Oz (which even then was a close score line for a bad game and the Championship winners, I think there would be less negativity, and more of an anomaly. I dont see this as one anomaly game, its been like it since Samoa, IMO, and it got exposed against a team that matched us.

I think Samoa should be excluded, it was insanely hot, and no-one plays well in that heat, but it was also their first hit out of the season and with a B team. Those three factors amount to a fair reason for it to have not been pretty. Do you think the same would happen in Auckland now? Even set moves in Samoa like the cross kick, were actually very close to going, the heat makes the ball travel further than it would in colder conditions. You can go ahead and say I am defending DC for that, but hand on my heart if it had been Cruden, I would be saying the same thing.

The other thing is that I think the AB's are holding back a little, a few commentators have alluded to the same. There were opportunities not taken in that game against Australia especially (and SA for that matter) that I think would have been taken normally. Obviously I could be wrong about that, but I really get the feeling there is more to come. I am not saying that's the only reason for the loss in any way, nor am I suggesting they intended to win.

Everyone wants to see the AB's win by 100 points every game and for their to be zero mistakes and for every player to play to their full potential every game. Reality is that this is test rugby, hundreds of games are won by <5 points.

The AB's have been the best team in the world for a long time. SH and GH both had excellent records for win/loss with the current group of players. I think we should trust them and cut them some slack.

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#1362649 11-Aug-2015 10:24

tdgeek:
networkn:
Jaxson:
Smithy100: The biggest thing for me was the reluctance to change tactics. Especially after the lessons of '07, the reluctance of "the leadership group" to change tack almost makes me wonder whether it was instructed from those above NOT to change.

There were no kicks through/behind the line.

Lol snap, I was just typing the exact same comment...

The AB's have an outstanding record doing what they have been doing up till now. We lose one game and every senior player and every single tactic they have employed for the last 10 years is "wrong".

Honestly, people amaze me.

Each year the AB's change a little bit, and their self believe in their game plan has got them wins time and time again. Some of them were close or ugly, but a wins a win.

I think its a little deeper than one game, the sentiments here. Samoa was a close scoreline, even with a B team, SA game was unimpressive, and Argies beat them since. If we had thrashed Samoa, say 34-9, strong win over SA, then a bad game against Oz (which even then was a close score line for a bad game and the Championship winners, I think there would be less negativity, and more of an anomaly. I dont see this as one anomaly game, its been like it since Samoa, IMO, and it got exposed against a team that matched us.

I disagree. The main reason the all blacks are so good is that we play at a high level each week. However, you can't peak and be at the very top of your ability every single week, you need to build up to it.

In the 2003 tri-nations we went to Pretoria and thumped the springboks, putting on 50 points then the following week we went to Sydney and put 50 points on Australia. I suspect that has never happened before or since. But how did the 2003 world cup end up for us? Knocked out in the semi by Australia (and I don't see those consecutive 50 point games mentioned, because nobody cares about tri nations in world cup year).

Then in 2011 we went to Port Elizabeth and lost to the springboks and the following week we went to brisbane and lost to Australia. Do you remember that? Probably not, because we won the world cup that year.

I want to win every game, but in world cup year I'm not going to panic because of a couple of lost games.

tdgeek

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#1362653 11-Aug-2015 10:35

networkn:
tdgeek:
networkn:
Jaxson:
Smithy100: The biggest thing for me was the reluctance to change tactics. Especially after the lessons of '07, the reluctance of "the leadership group" to change tack almost makes me wonder whether it was instructed from those above NOT to change.

There were no kicks through/behind the line.

Lol snap, I was just typing the exact same comment...

The AB's have an outstanding record doing what they have been doing up till now. We lose one game and every senior player and every single tactic they have employed for the last 10 years is "wrong".

Honestly, people amaze me.

Each year the AB's change a little bit, and their self believe in their game plan has got them wins time and time again. Some of them were close or ugly, but a wins a win.

I think its a little deeper than one game, the sentiments here. Samoa was a close scoreline, even with a B team, SA game was unimpressive, and Argies beat them since. If we had thrashed Samoa, say 34-9, strong win over SA, then a bad game against Oz (which even then was a close score line for a bad game and the Championship winners, I think there would be less negativity, and more of an anomaly. I dont see this as one anomaly game, its been like it since Samoa, IMO, and it got exposed against a team that matched us.

I think Samoa should be excluded, it was insanely hot, and no-one plays well in that heat, but it was also their first hit out of the season and with a B team. Those three factors amount to a fair reason for it to have not been pretty. Do you think the same would happen in Auckland now? Even set moves in Samoa like the cross kick, were actually very close to going, the heat makes the ball travel further than it would in colder conditions. You can go ahead and say I am defending DC for that, but hand on my heart if it had been Cruden, I would be saying the same thing.

The other thing is that I think the AB's are holding back a little, a few commentators have alluded to the same. There were opportunities not taken in that game against Australia especially (and SA for that matter) that I think would have been taken normally. Obviously I could be wrong about that, but I really get the feeling there is more to come. I am not saying that's the only reason for the loss in any way, nor am I suggesting they intended to win.

Everyone wants to see the AB's win by 100 points every game and for their to be zero mistakes and for every player to play to their full potential every game. Reality is that this is test rugby, hundreds of games are won by <5 points.

The AB's have been the best team in the world for a long time. SH and GH both had excellent records for win/loss with the current group of players. I think we should trust them and cut them some slack.

Not at all, I don't think anyone here thinks that, or close to that.

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#1362654 11-Aug-2015 10:35

I know this is gonna wear me some hate, but they may play Messam because they want Mongrel. I predict a yellow card if they do. I think he really needs to work on the balance between being aggressive and being a grub.

One thing that was quite interesting and leads me back to this holding back thing...

Traditionally going back a few years we have played really well with 14 men, but don't tend to push our advantage when our opponents are down a player. Last week we didn't push our advantage when they were down OR we were down a player.

tdgeek

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#1362656 11-Aug-2015 10:37

blair003:
tdgeek:
networkn:
Jaxson:
Smithy100: The biggest thing for me was the reluctance to change tactics. Especially after the lessons of '07, the reluctance of "the leadership group" to change tack almost makes me wonder whether it was instructed from those above NOT to change.

There were no kicks through/behind the line.

Lol snap, I was just typing the exact same comment...

The AB's have an outstanding record doing what they have been doing up till now. We lose one game and every senior player and every single tactic they have employed for the last 10 years is "wrong".

Honestly, people amaze me.

Each year the AB's change a little bit, and their self believe in their game plan has got them wins time and time again. Some of them were close or ugly, but a wins a win.

I think its a little deeper than one game, the sentiments here. Samoa was a close scoreline, even with a B team, SA game was unimpressive, and Argies beat them since. If we had thrashed Samoa, say 34-9, strong win over SA, then a bad game against Oz (which even then was a close score line for a bad game and the Championship winners, I think there would be less negativity, and more of an anomaly. I dont see this as one anomaly game, its been like it since Samoa, IMO, and it got exposed against a team that matched us.

I disagree. The main reason the all blacks are so good is that we play at a high level each week. However, you can't peak and be at the very top of your ability every single week, you need to build up to it.

In the 2003 tri-nations we went to Pretoria and thumped the springboks, putting on 50 points then the following week we went to Sydney and put 50 points on Australia. I suspect that has never happened before or since. But how did the 2003 world cup end up for us? Knocked out in the semi by Australia (and I don't see those consecutive 50 point games mentioned, because nobody cares about tri nations in world cup year).

Then in 2011 we went to Port Elizabeth and lost to the springboks and the following week we went to brisbane and lost to Australia. Do you remember that? Probably not, because we won the world cup that year.

I want to win every game, but in world cup year I'm not going to panic because of a couple of lost games.

Ok, My opinion is they have been off and below par every game. I'll stick to that.

blair003

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#1362657 11-Aug-2015 10:40

I don't disagree with you there - we have been below par. I'm saying that it doesn't necessarily matter in terms of the world cup and therefore you don't need to change what has been a winning formula for a number of years because of a few off games.
.

blair003

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#1362659 11-Aug-2015 10:42

McCaw is as likely to get carded as Messam.

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