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  #1362690 11-Aug-2015 11:02
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blair003: McCaw is as likely to get carded as Messam.


He would likely be carded for a technical group of penalties, Messam would be more likely carded for foul play.

I understand a cards a card, but to my mind I'd rather we weren't carded for foul play.

I'd like to be proven wrong, I hope I am.

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  #1362693 11-Aug-2015 11:08
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Considering what is considered foul play these days I think it is more acceptable to be carded for foul play (one off incident e.g. Aaron Smith) then for repeated infringements. 

 
 
 
 




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  #1362695 11-Aug-2015 11:11
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blair003: Considering what is considered foul play these days I think it is more acceptable to be carded for foul play (one off incident e.g. Aaron Smith) then for repeated infringements. 


Depends I guess, what if you are a repeat offender for Foul play?

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  #1362730 11-Aug-2015 11:41
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What if you are a repeat offender at breakdown infringements?

I think you believe Messam is a dirty player. I believe he shows controlled aggression. Sometimes players or referees get things a bit wrong though.

But I don't think Messam has let down the jersey except for back 5 or so years ago when he was not aggressive enough in the tight stuff and tried to play a bit fancy on the fringes.

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  #1362738 11-Aug-2015 11:47
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blair003: McCaw is as likely to get carded as Messam.


McCaw is only allowed a card when playing in red and black :)



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  #1362740 11-Aug-2015 11:48
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blair003: What if you are a repeat offender at breakdown infringements?

I think you believe Messam is a dirty player. I believe he shows controlled aggression. Sometimes players or referees get things a bit wrong though.

But I don't think Messam has let down the jersey except for back 5 or so years ago when he was not aggressive enough in the tight stuff and tried to play a bit fancy on the fringes.


I think he struggles (as does Dane Coles) to keep his aggression at appropriate levels and directed where it should be. Various commentators made comments to the effect they thought he was a grub a few times during the last season of SR and 2014 as well.

Someone who does aggression incredibly well, though not as much this season, is Kaino. His physicality saw him pretty much straight back into AB's contention from his return from Japan.

I can't find a website that gives me stats to support what I am saying, but I am pretty confident LM stats for this season or SR will show his penalties and cards were for non technical matters largely.

For the record it has nothing to do with him being a Chief. I wouldn't even be mentioning it if it wasn't possible he was playing this weekend.

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  #1362745 11-Aug-2015 11:54
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I was at the Cheifs Highlanders quarter at ForBar, LM is a very angry man when playing the game. 

 
 
 
 


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  #1362788 11-Aug-2015 12:47
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I hope to see RM at 6 with Cane at 7.

I like Messam but not in combination with Richie and Reido.


We need some speed in the loose and given Ardie is out, as is Matt Todd (who played well with Richie for the 'saders) Sam Cane has to be the man (besides, he's handy enough).



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  #1362798 11-Aug-2015 12:53
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Smithy100: I hope to see RM at 6 with Cane at 7.

I like Messam but not in combination with Richie and Reido.


We need some speed in the loose and given Ardie is out, as is Matt Todd (who played well with Richie for the 'saders) Sam Cane has to be the man (besides, he's handy enough).


That's an interesting idea. If the consensus is that RM isn't coping with the speed at the breakdown, six would suit him better, without losing him. Cane is capable. It's a shame Todd won't get a chance he is underrated. 

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  #1362799 11-Aug-2015 12:58
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networkn:
That's an interesting idea. If the consensus is that RM isn't coping with the speed at the breakdown, six would suit him better, without losing him. Cane is capable. It's a shame Todd won't get a chance he is underrated. 

They worked well for the Crusaders... harsh on Kaino (you could argue that on form, Reid should miss out) but one of the three has to go.

Todd will get a go next year - as will Savea... which is sad as I'm beginning to think they should be in there now.

But Shag and co know a little more than I do about the game (I hope - lol) so I trust their judgement.



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  #1362820 11-Aug-2015 13:05
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Smithy100:
networkn:
That's an interesting idea. If the consensus is that RM isn't coping with the speed at the breakdown, six would suit him better, without losing him. Cane is capable. It's a shame Todd won't get a chance he is underrated. 

They worked well for the Crusaders... harsh on Kaino (you could argue that on form, Reid should miss out) but one of the three has to go.

Todd will get a go next year - as will Savea... which is sad as I'm beginning to think they should be in there now.

But Shag and co know a little more than I do about the game (I hope - lol) so I trust their judgement.


Kaino's form hasn't been that great. I think I read Reads Stats were good for the Aussie Game. 



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  #1362837 11-Aug-2015 13:42
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Hmm apparently Guilford is considering using his out clause with the Warratahs to instead play within NZ. I wonder which franchise. I'd say the Highlanders wouldn't be keen. Crusaders might, but I suspect not, given what he put them through. Blues perhaps?  Can't see the Chiefs being keen and Hurricanes already have a full backline.

From a perspective teams perspective his erratic nature even shown in signing with the Warratahs and then backing out, would give me concerns. 

I mean if he returns to the Crusaders, I'm ok with that, so long as they take a hard line with him.

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  #1362872 11-Aug-2015 14:47
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networkn:
Smithy100:
networkn:
That's an interesting idea. If the consensus is that RM isn't coping with the speed at the breakdown, six would suit him better, without losing him. Cane is capable. It's a shame Todd won't get a chance he is underrated.

They worked well for the Crusaders... harsh on Kaino (you could argue that on form, Reid should miss out) but one of the three has to go.

Todd will get a go next year - as will Savea... which is sad as I'm beginning to think they should be in there now.

But Shag and co know a little more than I do about the game (I hope - lol) so I trust their judgement.


Kaino's form hasn't been that great. I think I read Reads Stats were good for the Aussie Game.


Kaino was buisiest defender (14 tackles), missed no tackles (Read missed two and 1 leading directly to a try) and was a stronger ball carryier (18m (5 carrys) v 9m (7 carrys)), never let the truth get in the way of a good story! The breakdown issues come back to forwards standing in the backline, not committing to the breakdown.

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  #1362876 11-Aug-2015 14:58
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networkn: Hmm apparently Guilford is considering using his out clause with the Warratahs to instead play within NZ. I wonder which franchise. I'd say the Highlanders wouldn't be keen. Crusaders might, but I suspect not, given what he put them through. Blues perhaps?  Can't see the Chiefs being keen and Hurricanes already have a full backline.

From a perspective teams perspective his erratic nature even shown in signing with the Warratahs and then backing out, would give me concerns. 

I mean if he returns to the Crusaders, I'm ok with that, so long as they take a hard line with him.


I hope the guy has sorted it life out if he wants a black jersey. I thought the AB's had a pretty strict no dick head rule. Something the Ozzys have needed in the past few years too!



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  #1362878 11-Aug-2015 15:03
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itxtme:
networkn:
Smithy100:
networkn:
That's an interesting idea. If the consensus is that RM isn't coping with the speed at the breakdown, six would suit him better, without losing him. Cane is capable. It's a shame Todd won't get a chance he is underrated.

They worked well for the Crusaders... harsh on Kaino (you could argue that on form, Reid should miss out) but one of the three has to go.

Todd will get a go next year - as will Savea... which is sad as I'm beginning to think they should be in there now.

But Shag and co know a little more than I do about the game (I hope - lol) so I trust their judgement.


Kaino's form hasn't been that great. I think I read Reads Stats were good for the Aussie Game.


Kaino was buisiest defender (14 tackles), missed no tackles (Read missed two and 1 leading directly to a try) and was a stronger ball carryier (18m (5 carrys) v 9m (7 carrys)), never let the truth get in the way of a good story! The breakdown issues come back to forwards standing in the backline, not committing to the breakdown.


 

Where are your stats coming from out of interest?

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