Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#3457983 2-Feb-2026 11:49

Earbanean:

When he had a chance to look at it, he is quoted as: “It met the red card threshold and he got punished accordingly.”

Just because you can (supposedly) dig out some high penalty count from 13 years ago, I still don't think that makes Dave Rennie and Wayne Smith bad coaches. The world seems to agree with me.

Oh, he didn't get a chance to look at it in the 15 minutes it took for them to stretcher Quinn off? Rubbish. He got told he was out of line and made to address it properly.

The 'world' doesn't agree with you. That isn't how that works.

Dave Rennie may not be a bad coach, but his style of win at all costs isn't how I want the AB's to play. I seriously hope they don't consider him for this role, though at the rate their poorly planned decision is falling apart, and the number of contenders who have said nope, there is every chance we will be down to our less desireable choices.

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#3458084 2-Feb-2026 15:10

networkn:

Oh, he didn't get a chance to look at it in the 15 minutes it took for them to stretcher Quinn off? Rubbish. He got told he was out of line and made to address it properly.

The 'world' doesn't agree with you. That isn't how that works.

Dave Rennie may not be a bad coach, but his style of win at all costs isn't how I want the AB's to play. I seriously hope they don't consider him for this role, though at the rate their poorly planned decision is falling apart, and the number of contenders who have said nope, there is every chance we will be down to our less desireable choices.

I really find this obsessive thing you have quite fascinating. I follow rugby a lot, and I know people at all levels of NZ rugby, and I've literally never heard anyone refer to Dave Rennie as 'win at all costs' and/or dirty in any way. It's just not a thing - but you state it as if it's a known fact.

For what it's worth, even AI is pretty unequivocal:

"Short answer: No — there is no evidence that Dave Rennie is known as a “win‑at‑all‑costs” coach. In fact, the available reporting and profiles point in the opposite direction.

What Rennie is known for:
1. Hard‑nosed, high‑standards, but principled
2. Player‑development and culture‑first coaching
3. No pattern of unethical or cynical play under his teams"

Also, this obsession thing repeatedly ignores the fact that beloved Wayne Smith was an integral part of Rennie's Chiefs, and would therefore have to be guilty of this as well. It's kind of like the obsession that Shannon Frizzell should never ever be an AB again, while continuing to ignore repeated violent episodes from Sevu Reece, who you were adamant should be an AB.

Fascinating.

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#3458090 2-Feb-2026 15:45

Earbanean:

Fascinating.

This whole thing you do using insulting inference (with all sorts of insulting labels like 'obsessive' and 'conspiracy theorist') if they disagree with you, is getting pretty tiresome. This is supposed to be a discussion and opinion is part of that.

The discipline stats on Rennies Chiefs and Rennies Wallabies speak for themselves (and the types of penalties too). It was common for post match interviews to contain the phrases 'our lack of discipline really hurt us' and other such comments.

You aren't the only person who watches a lot of rugby. For example, I have watched every minute of every single match of the last four Rugby World Cups including every minnow game too. With the exception of the last 1.5 seasons, where time only allowed me to watch Crusaders games, and Finals, I have watched the vast majority of all Kiwi involved teams in super rugby for many seasons.

If you feel inclined, you are welcome to review my prior comments where in plenty of games (including under Robertson) where I felt the Crusaders disclipline was poor and I condemned it, and I made the point more than a few times, that coaches that don't resolve these issues, are encouraging it. I even made the point that I didn't want Robertson to bring that to the AB's.

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#3458100 2-Feb-2026 16:15

I totally agree. You, like all of us, are intitled to your own opinion - especially wrt something like sport, which is ultimately not that important. I have no issue with rugby opinions that differ from mine. That makes discussions fun.

I think maybe the consternation arises when you state your opinions as if they were fact. e.g. "his style of win at all costs" - as if that's a known fact. It's not. Maybe better to say something like "IMO he has a win at all costs style which I wouldn't like to see in an ABs coach".

I think if you state things as fact, then you should be able to produce some data or evidence. e.g. when you stated that Wayne Smith wasn't involved in the 2025 review process - but then declined the opportunity to show that was actually true. It might be true, but I've yet to see evidence either way, so I personal wouldn't call David Kirk and NZR a "clown show" about that.

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#3458101 2-Feb-2026 16:21

Forgot to add. For example, you state "The discipline stats on Rennies Chiefs and Rennies Wallabies speak for themselves".

OK then, please show us the discipline stats you have on the Chiefs from 2012 - 2015

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#3458107 2-Feb-2026 16:53

Earbanean:

I have no issue with rugby opinions that differ from mine. That makes discussions fun.

Evidence seems to indicate otherwise.

Some of us were having a bit of fun exploring the possibilities of coaching and what not, nek minnit you are accusing us of conspiracy in your special reductive manner.

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#3458174 3-Feb-2026 08:30

Oh well, I guess that means we don't get any evidence about Smith not involved in the review, or any evidence that Rennie is win at all costs or any of the aforementioned stats and data showing Rennie's Chiefs had a bad disciplinary record. That's a shame, that would've been interesting.

Anyway, moving right along, Hansen and Foster being approached... I really can't see them being interested. They'd be reasonably well placed to hit the ground running, having done it all before and could arguably do a good job - but why would they want to?

Same goes for Mitchell, assuming he was ever seriously in the frame. He's getting paid good coin to coach a virtually unbeatable team. Why throw that away? Though I imagine the current speculation probably bumped up his salary with England a bit. He'll be chuffed about that.

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#3458239 3-Feb-2026 09:34

Earbanean:

Oh well, I guess that means we don't get any evidence about Smith not involved in the review, or any evidence that Rennie is win at all costs or any of the aforementioned stats and data showing Rennie's Chiefs had a bad disciplinary record. That's a shame, that would've been interesting.

Thanks for the passive aggressiveness. I am not here to do your homework. I did mine a few years ago, and satisified myself that what I was seeing was consistent with the stats. IF I get time over the next few days (I am certainly sorry I didn't meet your timeline expectations), I might go and see if I can find the articles (Some of which were facebook posts /Blogs IIRC from established Rugby Bloggers/commentators. However, I fully expect you'd disregard them or explain them away.

I am really not sure what you think my motivation saying bad things about Rennie is exactly? Nor what you think I get from critisicing NZRU over their process is? Do you think Rennie pissed in my cornflakes or something?

If you yourself, as a Chiefs fan, can't see the difference in discipline between Rennies time at the Chiefs and how they were under MacMillan (who I have quite a lot of respect for), then really, this discussion is pointless.

Anyway, moving right along, Hansen and Foster being approached... I really can't see them being interested. They'd be reasonably well placed to hit the ground running, having done it all before and could arguably do a good job - but why would they want to?

Same goes for Mitchell, assuming he was ever seriously in the frame. He's getting paid good coin to coach a virtually unbeatable team. Why throw that away? Though I imagine the current speculation probably bumped up his salary with England a bit. He'll be chuffed about that.

It was interesting that a few days ago, Foster was interviewed and said he didn't expect to hear from NZRU, and now he's been approached. How the tables have turned, it's exceedingly funny. The NZ Public has certainly changed their tune as well.

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#3458263 3-Feb-2026 11:13

Here is the first article I found on google with a 10 second search. I am sure I'll find more.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/rugby-chiefs-plan-to-staunch-penalty-flow/MUOPBIV35LMJW3WMUY5IRSPRMQ/

Also, since you like AI: (Which without specific context and guardrails will usually just find a way to tell you what you want to hear, since AI based LLM's are essentially fancy autocomplete.

Ultimately, you can draw you own conclusions and believe whatever you wish. Nothing I've seen from Rennie makes me think I'd want him involved in our National team, even if he does have some redeeming qualities. At the end of the day though, if he ends up in charge or involved and the team does well under him, then the past won't matter.

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#3458405 3-Feb-2026 14:05

I think it's a stretch to go from Wallabies penalty counts to

Every team he has coached has become less discliplined and usually the least discplined in their respective competition (most penalised and carded). The Chiefs and Wallabies are the most easy examples to point to.

A quick look at the penalty stats for the two championship years for the Chiefs has them second worst for 2012, and mid table 2013 for penalties, couldn't find the last year.

I would assume (a very unscientific assumption) the Wallabies count was more to do with being a poor team and having to give away penaties due to fatigue and because they are under pressure for longer parts of the game.

Can't talk to Glasgow Warriors or Kobe Steelers penalty counts, but every team bar Australia he seems to have elevated to higher performance, and even then his replacement managed a 22% win rate the following season.

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#3458409 3-Feb-2026 14:10

Ha ha ha. One news article after only 6 or 7 rounds in only one year of his four year tenure. It's amazing he wasn't arrested on the spot. Maybe time to move on.

I see the draw for the World Cup was released today. It's pretty uninspiring for the ABs at the pool stage and IMO not worth the travel to head over. We'll have a marginally better Last 16 game, then likely the Boks in the Quarter. That would be worth seeing, but it would be brave to book to see them beyond that. The Semis and Finals hould be good games but not so bullish about the ABs involvement.

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#3458417 3-Feb-2026 14:24

SA in the QF is a brutal ask, then France?

As an aside that is not the most logical draw i have ever seen.

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#3458418 3-Feb-2026 14:28

lachlanw:

I would assume (a very unscientific assumption) the Wallabies count was more to do with being a poor team and having to give away penaties due to fatigue and because they are under pressure for longer parts of the game.

Yeah, that's a good point. While penalty counts are indicative of discipline in general, a high count can be due to issues like a week scrum - something the Wobblies have suffered from a bit. With teams like the Boks aggressively scrumming for penalties, the count can go up pretty fast - and that in turn leads to cards. This was particularly so under the old rules where a free kick recipient could choose to take a scrum, then turn that scrum into a penalty. The Wallabies bringing in Mike Cron was an acknowledgment of this issue and a good move in my view.

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#3458419 3-Feb-2026 14:30

Earbanean:

Ha ha ha. One news article after only 6 or 7 rounds in only one year of his four year tenure. It's amazing he wasn't arrested on the spot. Maybe time to move on.

Exactly as predicted. At least I won't have to waste my time with any more proof, since it's clear it wouldn't matter anyway :)

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#3458420 3-Feb-2026 14:31

lachlanw:

SA in the QF is a brutal ask, then France?

As an aside that is not the most logical draw i have ever seen.

Yeah agreed, it's a stupid draw. It's just like 2023 where the ABs, Boks, French and Irish all met at the QF stage on one side of the draw - with 2 of the World top 4 teams going home before the semis.

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