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  Reply # 1407645 16-Oct-2015 10:07
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blair003:
networkn:
Smithy100: Glad to see NMS in ahead of Naholo - didn't really expect differently though you just never know! Surprised to see TKB ahead of TJP, though upon reflection his form has been flat since the S15... also interesting to see Moody straight onto the bench.

Looking forward to a great game - and all the bacon!


Didn't see they had announced the team. Considering TKB's form it is a complete mystery how is he @ RWC at all, and nothing I've seen since has indicated to me he should be played in a knockout match, but maybe he's been "holding back".



The fact they picked him when he hadn't played any rugby should tell you something about how the best rugby brains in NZ see him.

His form is on the improve as he gets more game time. He has certainly lacked game time, but if they can't count on him to play in this game then he wouldn't have been picked for the squad.


I guess I wasn't that impressed during Super Rugby time either! TJP WAS impressive, and so it was very clear he was the deservedly second choice to AS. I guess they are looking long term, and possibly looking at very specific things I am not seeing because I am not sure what to look for.

At the end of the day I have put my trust in SH, he has earned the trust he has been given, over and over, but I hope this doesn't end up another Naholo. (Comparatively Brad Weber has been playing very well (In case you think my comments are anti Waikato bias).

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  Reply # 1407648 16-Oct-2015 10:10
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blair003:
joker97: If (and i don't think that's the sole reason) everything bring equal they have 2 backup goal kickers. In the past dagg would be goal kicker no 3 but tkb now holds that role.


For the game vs Georgia we picked both TKB and TJP on the bench, but TJP was picked because he was the backup goalkicker (after DC, in the absence of Slade and Barrett). I don't think TKB kicks goals? In that game, it was TKB that came on for the final 10 minutes at halfback, so we shouldn't be surprised he had the inside running at halfback now.


As usual the starting 15 for solidity, the bench for impact. There is a plan for each of the 8 impact players.

 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 1407649 16-Oct-2015 10:10
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blair003:
joker97: If (and i don't think that's the sole reason) everything bring equal they have 2 backup goal kickers. In the past dagg would be goal kicker no 3 but tkb now holds that role.


For the game vs Georgia we picked both TKB and TJP on the bench, but TJP was picked because he was the backup goalkicker (after DC, in the absence of Slade and Barrett). I don't think TKB kicks goals? In that game, it was TKB that came on for the final 10 minutes at halfback, so we shouldn't be surprised he had the inside running at halfback now.


The thing that has concerned me about TJP, is he is pretty inconsistent. He was dropped by the AB's because he couldn't replicate his SR under pressure of test rugby, and reintroduced when he got his form back in the last SR season. I suspect if he has been overlooked now, his test career is done, as there are actually reasonable
stocks of decent 9's in the country.



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  Reply # 1407651 16-Oct-2015 10:14
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To confirm there is no end of year tour this year? Last game is October is the last NZ International Rugby in 2015?


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  Reply # 1407652 16-Oct-2015 10:17
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networkn:
blair003:
networkn:
Smithy100: Glad to see NMS in ahead of Naholo - didn't really expect differently though you just never know! Surprised to see TKB ahead of TJP, though upon reflection his form has been flat since the S15... also interesting to see Moody straight onto the bench.

Looking forward to a great game - and all the bacon!


Didn't see they had announced the team. Considering TKB's form it is a complete mystery how is he @ RWC at all, and nothing I've seen since has indicated to me he should be played in a knockout match, but maybe he's been "holding back".



The fact they picked him when he hadn't played any rugby should tell you something about how the best rugby brains in NZ see him.

His form is on the improve as he gets more game time. He has certainly lacked game time, but if they can't count on him to play in this game then he wouldn't have been picked for the squad.


I guess I wasn't that impressed during Super Rugby time either! TJP WAS impressive, and so it was very clear he was the deservedly second choice to AS. I guess they are looking long term, and possibly looking at very specific things I am not seeing because I am not sure what to look for.

At the end of the day I have put my trust in SH, he has earned the trust he has been given, over and over, but I hope this doesn't end up another Naholo. (Comparatively Brad Weber has been playing very well (In case you think my comments are anti Waikato bias).


IIRC he didn't play super rugby, probably why you were not impressed. He was second choice AB halfback before his injury last year in October (playing for the AB's). He has only returned this year in July, and has lacked game time since then for sure.

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  Reply # 1407666 16-Oct-2015 10:25
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Also regarding "another Naholo", you're acting like it was a bad decision and to take someone else and let Naholo move to France (as was going to happen) would have been a better decision.

I disagree. Just because they didn't get the best out of him in the limited game time he had doesn't mean it was the wrong decision.

TKB was the second choice halfback and under this regime you don't lose your place in the pecking order due to injury.

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  Reply # 1407677 16-Oct-2015 10:34
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blair003: Also regarding "another Naholo", you're acting like it was a bad decision and to take someone else and let Naholo move to France (as was going to happen) would have been a better decision.

I disagree. Just because they didn't get the best out of him in the limited game time he had doesn't mean it was the wrong decision.

TKB was the second choice halfback and under this regime you don't lose your place in the pecking order due to injury.


Agreed, its a plan that has worked very well.  Take two in-form bolters, knowing there is only room in the starting team for one.  From those two pick the best (NMS it seems).  Its worked well, NMS or Naholo (particularly) were never going to be bench players, so one was always going to miss out.



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  Reply # 1407697 16-Oct-2015 10:52
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blair003: Also regarding "another Naholo", you're acting like it was a bad decision and to take someone else and let Naholo move to France (as was going to happen) would have been a better decision.

I disagree. Just because they didn't get the best out of him in the limited game time he had doesn't mean it was the wrong decision.

TKB was the second choice halfback and under this regime you don't lose your place in the pecking order due to injury.


Not sure if I think it was a "bad" decision, but it was fairly risky, taking into account his injury. That risk hasn't paid off with Naholo this time.

Same of TKB, (and yes I understand the not missing out due to injury), I don't think he is back at his best BECAUSE of his injury, which has resulted in no game time (Yes I was mistaken about him not playing SR this year it would seem).  You will have seen how long leg injuries take to heal, not
just the injury itself, but the confidence to rely on the limb. 

I think the two factor thing, esp in a world cup where expectations are so high and it takes us as a country 4-8 years to get over losing one, should have resulted in both those players staying at home, playing ITM, or what not, and been considered for the AB's in 2016. (and yes I do understand that Naholo was due to go to France).

Having said that, I sincerely hope I am incorrect about TKB (I have nothing personal against the guy obviously) and I hope he plays the leather off the ball.







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  Reply # 1407701 16-Oct-2015 10:54
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itxtme:
blair003: Also regarding "another Naholo", you're acting like it was a bad decision and to take someone else and let Naholo move to France (as was going to happen) would have been a better decision.

I disagree. Just because they didn't get the best out of him in the limited game time he had doesn't mean it was the wrong decision.

TKB was the second choice halfback and under this regime you don't lose your place in the pecking order due to injury.


Agreed, its a plan that has worked very well.  Take two in-form bolters, knowing there is only room in the starting team for one.  From those two pick the best (NMS it seems).  Its worked well, NMS or Naholo (particularly) were never going to be bench players, so one was always going to miss out.


I don't agree it's worked "well". Surely the ideal situation, is you take two "in form bolters" and they both play like men possessed, you lose sleep over who will miss out, and you make a decision based on which "in form at rwc" player gets to start based on their skills and how they will best compete and against THIS weeks opponent.


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  Reply # 1407711 16-Oct-2015 11:06
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Nope thats the "optimal" situation.  Risk and reward, its worked well.  our starting lineup and reserves is a very strong in-form team.



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  Reply # 1407732 16-Oct-2015 11:07
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itxtme: Nope thats the "optimal" situation.  Risk and reward, its worked well.  our starting lineup and reserves is a very strong in-form team.


If NMS gets injured, then we move BS to Wing, Barrett to FB? Slade as backup to DC?


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  Reply # 1407735 16-Oct-2015 11:13
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networkn:
itxtme: Nope thats the "optimal" situation.  Risk and reward, its worked well.  our starting lineup and reserves is a very strong in-form team.


If NMS gets injured, then we move BS to Wing, Barrett to FB? Slade as backup to DC?



Would be interesting. If the rest of the back line is performing, I think they would just bring in Naholo for NMS and back him to perform. If for example DC had been under pressure/under performing they may rearrange the back line to bring in Barrett so they have a second play maker.



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  Reply # 1407739 16-Oct-2015 11:18
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blair003:
networkn:
itxtme: Nope thats the "optimal" situation.  Risk and reward, its worked well.  our starting lineup and reserves is a very strong in-form team.


If NMS gets injured, then we move BS to Wing, Barrett to FB? Slade as backup to DC?



Would be interesting. If the rest of the back line is performing, I think they would just bring in Naholo for NMS and back him to perform. If for example DC had been under pressure/under performing they may rearrange the back line to bring in Barrett so they have a second play maker.


See this is what I mean, it's created a conundrum that doesn't happen, if you don't potentially have 2 players, in the squad underperforming, due to prior or ongoing injury. I don't see 2 "in form but injured" , or "previously inform and recovering from injury", players being the smart move.

I guess at the end of the day, let's hope no-one gets injured, or that perhaps Naholo finds international form if the worst occurs, I guess we will find out. 

I am actually less worried about this, than I may actually seem, as I am less worried about the RWC than some, to me, it's far more important we are #1 the rest of the 4 years, but I'd still LOVE to win it.

Even if we lose on Sunday, I won't be calling for Hansen's head.

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  Reply # 1407750 16-Oct-2015 11:27
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networkn:
itxtme:
blair003: Also regarding "another Naholo", you're acting like it was a bad decision and to take someone else and let Naholo move to France (as was going to happen) would have been a better decision.

I disagree. Just because they didn't get the best out of him in the limited game time he had doesn't mean it was the wrong decision.

TKB was the second choice halfback and under this regime you don't lose your place in the pecking order due to injury.


Agreed, its a plan that has worked very well.  Take two in-form bolters, knowing there is only room in the starting team for one.  From those two pick the best (NMS it seems).  Its worked well, NMS or Naholo (particularly) were never going to be bench players, so one was always going to miss out.


I don't agree it's worked "well". Surely the ideal situation, is you take two "in form bolters" and they both play like men possessed, you lose sleep over who will miss out, and you make a decision based on which "in form at rwc" player gets to start based on their skills and how they will best compete and against THIS weeks opponent.



I think you are barking up the wrong tree. I think the problem is not the back up 9, but the starting 10. Hasn't shown how good he is under pressure. If course it's my opinion, and happy to be proven wrong.

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  Reply # 1407753 16-Oct-2015 11:28
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networkn:
blair003:
networkn:
itxtme: Nope thats the "optimal" situation.  Risk and reward, its worked well.  our starting lineup and reserves is a very strong in-form team.


If NMS gets injured, then we move BS to Wing, Barrett to FB? Slade as backup to DC?



Would be interesting. If the rest of the back line is performing, I think they would just bring in Naholo for NMS and back him to perform. If for example DC had been under pressure/under performing they may rearrange the back line to bring in Barrett so they have a second play maker.


See this is what I mean, it's created a conundrum that doesn't happen, if you don't potentially have 2 players, in the squad underperforming, due to prior or ongoing injury. I don't see 2 "in form but injured" , or "previously inform and recovering from injury", players being the smart move.

I guess at the end of the day, let's hope no-one gets injured, or that perhaps Naholo finds international form if the worst occurs, I guess we will find out. 

I am actually less worried about this, than I may actually seem, as I am less worried about the RWC than some, to me, it's far more important we are #1 the rest of the 4 years, but I'd still LOVE to win it.

Even if we lose on Sunday, I won't be calling for Hansen's head.



I think your expectations are too high. Naholo has been around for 5 minutes. He has bombed a try and scored a try nobody else in our team would have. He has not been tidy enough and was bundled into touch when he shouldn't have been. They haven't given him the space that they have given NMS, they have used him more in close a la Savea. Remember NMS bombed an easier try than the Naholo drop ball, and had you judged him on his performance in that game you would say hes not good enough and shouldn't have been selected.

Currently we have many players under performing - Read and Savea being the two most obvious examples. You are focusing on Naholo and TKB because you think it is their injuries causing them issues and therefore that is reason for them not to have been selected. Who cares why players are under performing? Is Read under performing because of earlier concussions? Should we have left him at home?

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