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  Reply # 1648853 11-Oct-2016 01:08
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joker97:

 

Ok maybe not so fast ... the top cars are fine on the softs ... but tyre selection could be important in a dry race ...

 

 

Hards were mandatory. Some couldn't keep the heat in, Rosberg included as he was pacing himself, Lewis was fine as he was chasing hard.

 

I find it boring when some go one stop, as it means they arent racing anyone for most of the race, then at the end their tyres are getting shagged. Yes, its an option, but it rarely seems to help racing much. FIA should assess the circuit, and mandate its a 2 stop or 3 stop, then everyone can be racing the same race. Limit that strategy to what tyres and when, that way we as spectators can keep track of progress. Car A and B are racing together, car B is falling behind slowly but he will catch up, that type of thing. That partly why I lost interest in NASCAR, strategies all over the place, hard to know how the race or your fave car is going


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  Reply # 1648872 11-Oct-2016 07:26
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tdgeek:

 

Watched the race. More interesting than expected, given overtaking is supposed to be hard, but there was plenty. Why was Max driver of the day again? Like Malaysia, I didnt really see any driver standing out. Nico nailed the weekend, Lewis lost out at the start, I expect bogging as concerned over spinning up on the side that had some dampness. He needs to sort that. First signs that he's giving up, when he sprayed Nico with champagne on the podium. Usually he keeps his interaction with his teammate, well, zero. 

 

Snapchat gate was weird. I saw it as disrespectful of him to giggle away with his mobile during the driver conference. Current champion, only six drivers, and media questions. And to not answer a question as it was on his Instagram?? Strange. 

 

Four to go, 33 the diff. Its DNF time, as clean results wont cut it. 

 

 

33/4 races is still a long way to go from being decided as everyone is calling it. it's only about a converted try in the scoreline in rugby speak.





Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.




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  Reply # 1648874 11-Oct-2016 07:36
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joker97:

 

tdgeek:

 

Watched the race. More interesting than expected, given overtaking is supposed to be hard, but there was plenty. Why was Max driver of the day again? Like Malaysia, I didnt really see any driver standing out. Nico nailed the weekend, Lewis lost out at the start, I expect bogging as concerned over spinning up on the side that had some dampness. He needs to sort that. First signs that he's giving up, when he sprayed Nico with champagne on the podium. Usually he keeps his interaction with his teammate, well, zero. 

 

Snapchat gate was weird. I saw it as disrespectful of him to giggle away with his mobile during the driver conference. Current champion, only six drivers, and media questions. And to not answer a question as it was on his Instagram?? Strange. 

 

Four to go, 33 the diff. Its DNF time, as clean results wont cut it. 

 

 

33/4 races is still a long way to go from being decided as everyone is calling it. it's only about a converted try in the scoreline in rugby speak.

 

 

I fully agree. It does need a bad Nico result though, ideally a DNF. If they ran 1-2 and Lewis wins each race, its not enough. He needs to go for gold and hope for a bad result, as long as it gets under 25 there is hope for that one DNF to bring it back to a real opportunity. 


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  Reply # 1649030 11-Oct-2016 11:19
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What was Vettel thinking, trying to get 2nd got held up and then throwing away 3rd. When it's clear you can't get second then you need to protect from the undercut! Very bad year for him.

And as for Crofty i still don't know why he's there. Annoying and shouty, and his comments makes no sense. Like Vettel puts on soft tyres so that if they get to the end Vettel will have a chance to overtake Hamilton. WTH? Soft tyres if he gets to the end he should pray they don't delaminate!




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  Reply # 1649161 11-Oct-2016 13:42
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joker97: What was Vettel thinking, trying to get 2nd got held up and then throwing away 3rd. When it's clear you can't get second then you need to protect from the undercut! Very bad year for him.

And as for Crofty i still don't know why he's there. Annoying and shouty, and his comments makes no sense. Like Vettel puts on soft tyres so that if they get to the end Vettel will have a chance to overtake Hamilton. WTH? Soft tyres if he gets to the end he should pray they don't delaminate!

 

They couldnt complete, so I guess they took the option to go soft and hope that as the track rubbers in they will last and give something at the end. So often someone takes an alternate strategy, and its always the wrong one and they know it, but its different. Something might happen, and they hope to luck in


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  Reply # 1649168 11-Oct-2016 13:47
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tdgeek:

 

joker97: What was Vettel thinking, trying to get 2nd got held up and then throwing away 3rd. When it's clear you can't get second then you need to protect from the undercut! Very bad year for him.

And as for Crofty i still don't know why he's there. Annoying and shouty, and his comments makes no sense. Like Vettel puts on soft tyres so that if they get to the end Vettel will have a chance to overtake Hamilton. WTH? Soft tyres if he gets to the end he should pray they don't delaminate!

 

They couldnt complete, so I guess they took the option to go soft and hope that as the track rubbers in they will last and give something at the end. So often someone takes an alternate strategy, and its always the wrong one and they know it, but its different. Something might happen, and they hope to luck in

 

 

I found it quite cool to watch Vettel close in on Hamilton but Hamilton on the hard tyres managed the gap well, mainly kept it around the 1s mark until Vettels tyres fell apart... Demonstrates three things... 1) Aero is far far too much in this formula these days and 2) the merc is a very powerful car with a well balanced setup 3) Hamilton is a fine F1 driver, as he kept those hard tyres alive until the end of the race.




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  Reply # 1649174 11-Oct-2016 13:54
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Yep

 

Next year its an aero formula. Everyone will have grip to spare, engine power will feature less than now. Faster cars mean the better drivers will stand out more. 


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  Reply # 1649177 11-Oct-2016 13:56
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tdgeek:

 

Yep

 

Next year its an aero formula. Everyone will have grip to spare, engine power will feature less than now. Faster cars mean the better drivers will stand out more. 

 

 

With the same issues of no close following as the aero rules will still over-ride mechanical grip :-(

 

I just want a return to the late 90s with simple aero, wide tyres and this hybrid engine tech as its cool and valid for road cars!


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  Reply # 1649201 11-Oct-2016 14:16
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tdgeek:

 

Yep

 

Next year its an aero formula. Everyone will have grip to spare, engine power will feature less than now. Faster cars mean the better drivers will stand out more. 

 

 

And following (andhence getting close enough to overtake) imposible





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  Reply # 1649206 11-Oct-2016 14:17
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Benoire:

 

tdgeek:

 

Yep

 

Next year its an aero formula. Everyone will have grip to spare, engine power will feature less than now. Faster cars mean the better drivers will stand out more. 

 

 

With the same issues of no close following as the aero rules will still over-ride mechanical grip :-(

 

I just want a return to the late 90s with simple aero, wide tyres and this hybrid engine tech as its cool and valid for road cars!

 

 

Double DRS every straight.





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  Reply # 1649207 11-Oct-2016 14:18
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tdgeek:

 

joker97: What was Vettel thinking, trying to get 2nd got held up and then throwing away 3rd. When it's clear you can't get second then you need to protect from the undercut! Very bad year for him.

And as for Crofty i still don't know why he's there. Annoying and shouty, and his comments makes no sense. Like Vettel puts on soft tyres so that if they get to the end Vettel will have a chance to overtake Hamilton. WTH? Soft tyres if he gets to the end he should pray they don't delaminate!

 

They couldnt complete, so I guess they took the option to go soft and hope that as the track rubbers in they will last and give something at the end. So often someone takes an alternate strategy, and its always the wrong one and they know it, but its different. Something might happen, and they hope to luck in

 

 

No They went soft because Hamilton did the undercut. If they did the undercut they'd be fine. Seb took like a million new hard tyres in the lolli scramble he should have at least one more new set.





Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.




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  Reply # 1649295 11-Oct-2016 16:09
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Benoire:

 

tdgeek:

 

Yep

 

Next year its an aero formula. Everyone will have grip to spare, engine power will feature less than now. Faster cars mean the better drivers will stand out more. 

 

 

With the same issues of no close following as the aero rules will still over-ride mechanical grip :-(

 

I just want a return to the late 90s with simple aero, wide tyres and this hybrid engine tech as its cool and valid for road cars!

 

 

Close. You will get more aero, but same hybrid engine, and wider front and rear tyres. About 200mm wider IIRC.

 

Predictions are 5 to 6 seconds faster laptimes, so while its seen as an aero era, the tyres will allow closer following.

 

Expect grip to dominate, so the drivers who are good enough to handle the faster cornering to dominate. Engines will be less an issue

 

 




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  Reply # 1649297 11-Oct-2016 16:10
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joker97:

 

tdgeek:

 

Yep

 

Next year its an aero formula. Everyone will have grip to spare, engine power will feature less than now. Faster cars mean the better drivers will stand out more. 

 

 

And following (andhence getting close enough to overtake) imposible

 

 

No, MUCH more grip, so while aero affects the car following in dirty air, it also has MUCH more grip

 

 


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  Reply # 1649301 11-Oct-2016 16:17
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But the problem will still exist:

 

  • Car 1 has full grip/aero - can drive fast
  • Car 2 has full grip but compromised aero, which therefore affects grip and can't follow as close.

Slow corners will be fine as aero is not involved there, but mid/high speed which the aero affects means that hte following cars aero is compromised so it can't follow as fast as the car that has full aero / grip.

 

Another way:

 

Grip = 50%; Aero = 50%

 

  • Car 1 has 50% Grip / 50% Aero
  • Car 2 has 50% Grip / 35% Aero

So in this case, car 2s aero has been compromised and it cannot drive as fast.  Unless they've solved the air disruption in to the front wing and floor, by making the aero less vortexy and smoother from the rear of the leading car, the following car will always suffer.

 

Certainly this is how I see it and aero needs to not be a dominant component for it to not have an effect.

 

 




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  Reply # 1649315 11-Oct-2016 16:34
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Benoire:

 

But the problem will still exist:

 

  • Car 1 has full grip/aero - can drive fast
  • Car 2 has full grip but compromised aero, which therefore affects grip and can't follow as close.

Slow corners will be fine as aero is not involved there, but mid/high speed which the aero affects means that hte following cars aero is compromised so it can't follow as fast as the car that has full aero / grip.

 

Another way:

 

Grip = 50%; Aero = 50%

 

  • Car 1 has 50% Grip / 50% Aero
  • Car 2 has 50% Grip / 35% Aero

So in this case, car 2s aero has been compromised and it cannot drive as fast.  Unless they've solved the air disruption in to the front wing and floor, by making the aero less vortexy and smoother from the rear of the leading car, the following car will always suffer.

 

Certainly this is how I see it and aero needs to not be a dominant component for it to not have an effect.

 

 

 

 

I agree, but...

 

With todays tyres, you have grip caused by the tyres, and the downforce. As the tyres are much wider, the speed the car can turn a bend and retain mechanical grip increases.

 

Yes, so does the car in front, but in percentage terms the amount caused by aero will be less than that caused by tyres. Say its 50/50 now, next year if tyres are 65 and aero 35 that lessens the aero effect as the tyres can pick that up. Another factor is tyre drag. The car behind gets less, and while the parts of the front wrong are for the sole purpose of pushing air around the tyre to reduce drag, maybe with bigger tyres, they cant get that same level of efficiency, so a gain for the car behind.


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