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  Reply # 1554270 17-May-2016 16:14
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I am surprised at the number of lame passing attempts. I get where vettel is coming from, in that a lot of the attempts require the lead driver to get out of the way or get hit. There's a real racing game/ smash me out of the way thing going on at times.

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  Reply # 1554272 17-May-2016 16:16
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I recognise that I'm unlikely to get anyone to change their (already formed) opinions, but the FIA Sporting Regulations actually state:

 

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.

 

This unquestionably alongside, and Lewis is still 100% within track limits.

 

 

Aside - Hamilton apologised to the Mercedes Team for the incident resulting in a loss of 43 point or them - he did not apologise to Rosberg, not did he accept responsibility for it.

 

Also, FIA Formula One World Championship Sporting Regulations cover overtaking under "incidents":

 

"Incident means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which:

 

- caused an avoidable collision;
- forced a driver off the track;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.

 

 

It is my opinion that all four of those apply to Rosberg's move.

 

 

 

And finally:

 

Chapter IV: Code of Driving Conduct on Circuits

 

1 - Overtaking

 

a) "during a race, a car alone on the track may use the full width of the said track. However, as soon as it is caught up on a straight by a car which is either temporarily or constantly faster, the driver shall give the other vehicle the right of way...

 

(emphasis is mine)

 

Bottom line is that the incident was reviewed by the Stewards, and deemed a racing incident.  I suspect some of the rationale behind that decision was a) both effected parties were DNF, so neither gained an advantage from it, but mostly b) not wanting to detract from the fairy tale-esque win by Max.

 

 

 

[Edited with correct source regulation]




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  Reply # 1554280 17-May-2016 16:39
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Ill comment later, but here is the official transcript of the stewards. Not sure of 6 inches, where that comes from though

 

 

 


"The incident concerned started when Car 6 dropped into an incorrect power mode, as set by the driver prior to the start,” read the official stewards decision from the FIA. “This created a significant power differential between Car 6 and Car 44 at the exit of Turn 3 coming onto the straight, resulting as much as a 17kph speed difference between the two cars on the straight. Car 6 moved to the right to defend his position, as is his right under Article 27.7 of the Sporting Regulations.

“Simultaneously Car 44 as the significantly faster car with, at that time, apparent space on the inside, moved to make the pass. Article 27.7 requires the leading driver to leave room, if there is a "significant portion" of the car attempting to pass alongside. Car 44 had a portion of his front wing inside Car 6 small fractions of a second prior to Car 44 having to leave the right side of the track to avoid an initial collision, which may have led him to believe he had the right to space on the right. Once on the grass on the side of the track Car 44 was no longer in control of the situation.

"Having heard extensively from both drivers and from the team, the Stewards determined that Car 6 had the right to make the manoeuvre that he did and that Car 44's attempt to overtake was reasonable, and that the convergence of events led neither driver to be wholly or predominantly at fault, and therefore take no further action."
Read more at http://www.crash.net/f1/news/230385/1/hamilton-rosberg-escape-punishment-for-collision.html#qsOvpryMVELlk6P7.99

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  Reply # 1554285 17-May-2016 16:51
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Yes - I was wrong about 6" and have edited accordingly.

 

I think that with both drivers DNF and both from the same team, the Stewards had an easy out here.

 

I expect that the conversations within Mercedes will not be quite so easily sidestepped.


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  Reply # 1554294 17-May-2016 17:20
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6FIEND:

 

tdgeek:

 

That was an entertaining race. 

 

Mercedes. Both at fault...

 

I disagree.

 

Hamilton made this move on a straight piece of track.  Rosberg was on the LHS of the track (and still running even wider out of turn 3) when Lewis committed to the RHS 

 

 

There is no way to abort this move at this point, and Rosberg is still well to the left

 

 

Hamilton here is alongside Rosberg with plenty of track to spare.

 

 

...we all know what happened next.

 

 

 

That's all fact/evidence based.  The following is my opinion:

 

     

  1. It is never acceptable to force another driver off the track
  2. It is less acceptable to do so to one's teammate
  3. It is even less acceptable to do so on a straight piece of track
  4. It is even less acceptable still to do so when the rate of closure is so high (because of a mistake you have made)

 

Rosberg acknowledged that he saw Lewis head to the right, and deliberately shut the door on him.  He claims to be surprised that Hamilton persisted with the move and felt that he should have switched to an overtake attempt on the outside.

 

tdgeek:

 

Rosberg was slow as fixing being on the wrong mode, ... Normally the speed differential would have been a lot less, and it wouldn't have happened. 

 

This is key.  Hamilton wasn't "storming in" here late-breaking, or trying to throw one up the inside of a turn - Hamilton was at normal race pace, it was Rosberg who was out of step with the velocity of the following cars.  His mistake, and the resulting speed differential meant that there was no possibility for Hamilton to alter his overtaking trajectory.  So Rosberg simply forced him off the track.

 

 

I'm sorry, but Hamilton did this to Rosberg all the time last year. He's just getting a taste of his own medicine.

 

Martin Brundell says that lifting off the throttle is a very strong braking force in itself. If Hamilton lifted it would be fine. But he didn't. ROsberg lifted all the time when Hamilton does this to him, to prevent this sort of stuff happening. There was once when Rosberg didn't, and this happened. Can't remember what race it was last year.


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  Reply # 1554295 17-May-2016 17:21
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WyleECoyoteNZ:

 

Here's a clip from YT of Sky Sports F1 post race analysis

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWU2DZjDEeM

 

Hamilton got a good run at Rosberg out of the turn as Rosberg's car went into a harvesting mode (as mentioned earlier). This can be seen by the rain light flashing on Rosberg's car, and he subsequently making adjustment's in the cockpit.

 

 

SkySports F1 is heavily biased towards British drivers.




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  Reply # 1554296 17-May-2016 17:25
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6FIEND:

 

Yes - I was wrong about 6" and have edited accordingly.

 

I think that with both drivers DNF and both from the same team, the Stewards had an easy out here.

 

I expect that the conversations within Mercedes will not be quite so easily sidestepped.

 

 

 

 

Its a tough one. We all know on the internet everyone forms their own side. Me, I love F1, and Im more then happy to criticise any team or driver that I like/follow if they did a dumb thing. That out of the way..

 

Rosberg. He was playing with his knob... and slow as was fixing the wrong mapping. His fault. he dod mention we will need to find out, why, well, its a driver setting as Lewis said. And they aren't talked through that now on the grid. Rosberg -1. He was slow, 17kph was the speed differential. He saw Lewis and was moving over to block him, legal. 

 

Lewis. He saw a gap. He was at higher speed, he knew that, here is an opportunity. Rosberg was blocking, legal, he could see his angle, but he kept going. Given the gap, the speed differential, the angle Rosberg was going at before Lewis arrived, and the grass, it was an ever decreasing gap. Thats was a risk he could have tried but he allowed no margin to back out, he was fully committed. Mirrors are small, they vibrate, Rosberg wouldnt have a large HD image to look at, its all heat of the moment, and the fractions of a second whiz by. Lets IMO had a better opportunity to assess it, but also, the fractions of a second are whizzing by. 

 

 

 

Both could have done better, but both were legal as the report showed, so they took it as a racing incident. To me, the grass is the key feature, thats a huge risk, transferring all grip to the left rear wheel while the right doesnt steer the car straight. I feel that was a risk not worth taking. 

 

Were one or both careless? Marginally not I feel. But the grass, thats almost like a wet while line even when dry. Weeks ago we saw a car spin out in a straight, wheel was i the grass (I think it was grass not a white line)

 

The stewards are tyoically quite harsh, be a pity of they used an easy out. 


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  Reply # 1554297 17-May-2016 17:25
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If they want to fix diving and then figure out who's balls are bigger business, they should improve overtaking. DRS is just lame. Make it OTS, overtake system!




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  Reply # 1554299 17-May-2016 17:28
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joker97:

 

WyleECoyoteNZ:

 

Here's a clip from YT of Sky Sports F1 post race analysis

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWU2DZjDEeM

 

Hamilton got a good run at Rosberg out of the turn as Rosberg's car went into a harvesting mode (as mentioned earlier). This can be seen by the rain light flashing on Rosberg's car, and he subsequently making adjustment's in the cockpit.

 

 

SkySports F1 is heavily biased towards British drivers.

 

 

Any brit is for brits and so on. Lauda blamed Lewis, that was interesting, but its F1, anteing can happen and probably will. is he now not Lewis friendly? Rosberg re signed. Lewis rumours, its hard sometimes to sort the wood from the trees. 

 

Im not a Lewis fan, thats been sliding downhill for a while, disclosure. But if I thought he was in the right, Id happily say so


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  Reply # 1554300 17-May-2016 17:29
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While I'm a Mercedes fan I'm not a fan of Hamilton. Yes he's a brilliant driver, but he now has the ego to do with it which is a shame.

 

I think Mercedes have done a good job of trying to a contain that ego but right now IMHO it's Hamilton who has to be careful - he negotiated a huge pay packet but right now with their car being so superior there are a number of other drivers out there who could probably drive that car just as well and win. If he's going to start throwing his toys out at any time I'm sure Mercedes wouldn't hesitate to let him go and pick up somebody like Vettel who I'm sure would love to improve his podium position from the usual 3rd.

 

 




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  Reply # 1554301 17-May-2016 17:29
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joker97:

 

If they want to fix diving and then figure out who's balls are bigger business, they should improve overtaking. DRS is just lame. Make it OTS, overtake system!

 

 

They have a push to pass, the engine making slider. Wider tracks would help. OTOH if they had wide tracks, the races would probably finish in bhp order maybe




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  Reply # 1554303 17-May-2016 17:35
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sbiddle:

 

While I'm a Mercedes fan I'm not a fan of Hamilton. Yes he's a brilliant driver, but he now has the ego to do with it which is a shame.

 

I think Mercedes have done a good job of trying to a contain that ego but right now IMHO it's Hamilton who has to be careful - he negotiated a huge pay packet but right now with their car being so superior there are a number of other drivers out there who could probably drive that car just as well and win. If he's going to start throwing his toys out at any time I'm sure Mercedes wouldn't hesitate to let him go and pick up somebody like Vettel who I'm sure would love to improve his podium position from the usual 3rd.

 

 

 

 

I agree.

 

 

 

Lewis said some dumb things at times out of arrogance. Now, its like he is reading a script. Maybe he got ticked off, dunno. Thats why I dont like him much.Wins he's happy, loses he sad as, like its owed to him. I like Vettel but he was a bit into his position, but he acts very very well these days. He gave Max a huge rap, on and in, Lewis had to be reminded, then it was a short well done. ugh. 

 

Rosberg, he got overwhelmed last year. Pressure off he excelled, now he's learnt to just to race hard, don't be super safe and solid, that wont get you anywhere.

 

But good times at the moment


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  Reply # 1554306 17-May-2016 17:37
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The I think I'm just going to dive in and hope he has more to lose (because I won't get another chance at overtaking) is because that's true! Then one of three things happen
1 driver ahead gives in and lets a pass
2 driver ahead blocks and either results in there other fella lifting off or accept a crash
3 wheel to wheel racing and see who wins


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  Reply # 1554307 17-May-2016 17:37
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tdgeek:

joker97:


If they want to fix diving and then figure out who's balls are bigger business, they should improve overtaking. DRS is just lame. Make it OTS, overtake system!



They have a push to pass, the engine making slider. Wider tracks would help. OTOH if they had wide tracks, the races would probably finish in bhp order maybe



Yes they do but it doesn't work



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  Reply # 1554310 17-May-2016 17:44
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joker97: The I think I'm just going to dive in and hope he has more to lose (because I won't get another chance at overtaking) is because that's true! Then one of three things happen
1 driver ahead gives in and lets a pass
2 driver ahead blocks and either results in there other fella lifting off or accept a crash
3 wheel to wheel racing and see who wins

 

Its the opposite. Its only 5 points to Rosberg, but its stops the rot for Lewis. Now the points gap is unchanged and one race left. 43 from 17 is now 43 from 16


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