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  Reply # 1554311 17-May-2016 17:46
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joker97:
tdgeek:

 

joker97:

 

 

 

If they want to fix diving and then figure out who's balls are bigger business, they should improve overtaking. DRS is just lame. Make it OTS, overtake system!

 

 

 

 

 

 

They have a push to pass, the engine making slider. Wider tracks would help. OTOH if they had wide tracks, the races would probably finish in bhp order maybe

 



Yes they do but it doesn't work

 

It does, but your right, they can't use it willy nilly as the engine will break. Doesnt seem that long ago when each engine lasted 750 miles. One weekend


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  Reply # 1554312 17-May-2016 17:47
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tdgeek:

 

6FIEND:

 

Yes - I was wrong about 6" and have edited accordingly.

 

I think that with both drivers DNF and both from the same team, the Stewards had an easy out here.

 

I expect that the conversations within Mercedes will not be quite so easily sidestepped.

 

 

 

 

Its a tough one. We all know on the internet everyone forms their own side. Me, I love F1, and Im more then happy to criticise any team or driver that I like/follow if they did a dumb thing. That out of the way..

 

Rosberg. He was playing with his knob... and slow as was fixing the wrong mapping. His fault. he dod mention we will need to find out, why, well, its a driver setting as Lewis said. And they aren't talked through that now on the grid. Rosberg -1. He was slow, 17kph was the speed differential. He saw Lewis and was moving over to block him, legal. 

 

Lewis. He saw a gap. He was at higher speed, he knew that, here is an opportunity. Rosberg was blocking, legal, he could see his angle, but he kept going. Given the gap, the speed differential, the angle Rosberg was going at before Lewis arrived, and the grass, it was an ever decreasing gap. Thats was a risk he could have tried but he allowed no margin to back out, he was fully committed. Mirrors are small, they vibrate, Rosberg wouldnt have a large HD image to look at, its all heat of the moment, and the fractions of a second whiz by. Lets IMO had a better opportunity to assess it, but also, the fractions of a second are whizzing by. 

 

 

 

Both could have done better, but both were legal as the report showed, so they took it as a racing incident. To me, the grass is the key feature, thats a huge risk, transferring all grip to the left rear wheel while the right doesnt steer the car straight. I feel that was a risk not worth taking. 

 

Were one or both careless? Marginally not I feel. But the grass, thats almost like a wet while line even when dry. Weeks ago we saw a car spin out in a straight, wheel was i the grass (I think it was grass not a white line)

 

The stewards are tyoically quite harsh, be a pity of they used an easy out. 

 

 

It's easy to slow down the action 10x and pass a judgement. But in that spur of moment, Lewis had every right to try an attempt. DId Rosberg have every right to block - well, some people would, some people won't, depending on the situation etc etc. I don't know. I do know that blocking happens all the time.

 

So Lewis then had 2 choices - lift off, don't lift off. We've seen this before. Alonso I think it was forced someone (?Vettel) to drive on grass to pass him. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. This time not only did it not work, Lewis collects Rosberg, both eliminated. 

 

I think as much as s$%^ happens, it happens. Vettel did it to Webber. Schumi did it to Hill (well that one was blatantly obvious).

 

This one is a bit close. It wasn't like ROsberg drove into Lewis. It wasn't like Lewis drove into Rosberg. The grass did it!

 

In racing sometimes you crash. I think Mercedes has it under control. It'll be fine come next weekend.


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  Reply # 1554321 17-May-2016 18:03
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tdgeek:

 

joker97: The I think I'm just going to dive in and hope he has more to lose (because I won't get another chance at overtaking) is because that's true! Then one of three things happen
1 driver ahead gives in and lets a pass
2 driver ahead blocks and either results in there other fella lifting off or accept a crash
3 wheel to wheel racing and see who wins

 

Its the opposite. Its only 5 points to Rosberg, but its stops the rot for Lewis. Now the points gap is unchanged and one race left. 43 from 17 is now 43 from 16

 

 

SOrry that wasn't to apply to the Merc crash, Rosberg definitely invited a move on him. Usually applies to mid speed guys trying it on faster guys.

 

What I still don't get though, Hamilton said Rosberg set that wrong mode BEFORE the race started. So they tell the car to go from launch mode to race mode before the start, and Rosberg made a mistake on the Xbox controller and the pit weren't allowed to tell him. I bet they saw this coming! (not the crash, the move)


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  Reply # 1554323 17-May-2016 18:06
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tdgeek:

 

joker97: The I think I'm just going to dive in and hope he has more to lose (because I won't get another chance at overtaking) is because that's true! Then one of three things happen
1 driver ahead gives in and lets a pass
2 driver ahead blocks and either results in there other fella lifting off or accept a crash
3 wheel to wheel racing and see who wins

 

Its the opposite. Its only 5 points to Rosberg, but its stops the rot for Lewis. Now the points gap is unchanged and one race left. 43 from 17 is now 43 from 16

 

 

I have to say, no one is looking at the trophy now. 43 points is less than 2 very bad races. A bit like a 12 points lead in a test match with 70 mins left.


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  Reply # 1554332 17-May-2016 18:30
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Oh Dear. Hamilton is now watching the 2016 DWC fade into the distance.

 

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy cool




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  Reply # 1554361 17-May-2016 19:32
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joker97:

 

tdgeek:

 

joker97: The I think I'm just going to dive in and hope he has more to lose (because I won't get another chance at overtaking) is because that's true! Then one of three things happen
1 driver ahead gives in and lets a pass
2 driver ahead blocks and either results in there other fella lifting off or accept a crash
3 wheel to wheel racing and see who wins

 

Its the opposite. Its only 5 points to Rosberg, but its stops the rot for Lewis. Now the points gap is unchanged and one race left. 43 from 17 is now 43 from 16

 

 

SOrry that wasn't to apply to the Merc crash, Rosberg definitely invited a move on him. Usually applies to mid speed guys trying it on faster guys.

 

What I still don't get though, Hamilton said Rosberg set that wrong mode BEFORE the race started. So they tell the car to go from launch mode to race mode before the start, and Rosberg made a mistake on the Xbox controller and the pit weren't allowed to tell him. I bet they saw this coming! (not the crash, the move)

 

 

Yep, amongst other race messages, thats now the drivers sole responsibility. Bit of a dumb mistake if you ask me. Plus my Honda Accord Euro is 2.4 not 1.6 so I should know.. :-)




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  Reply # 1554363 17-May-2016 19:35
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joker97:

 

tdgeek:

 

joker97: The I think I'm just going to dive in and hope he has more to lose (because I won't get another chance at overtaking) is because that's true! Then one of three things happen
1 driver ahead gives in and lets a pass
2 driver ahead blocks and either results in there other fella lifting off or accept a crash
3 wheel to wheel racing and see who wins

 

Its the opposite. Its only 5 points to Rosberg, but its stops the rot for Lewis. Now the points gap is unchanged and one race left. 43 from 17 is now 43 from 16

 

 

I have to say, no one is looking at the trophy now. 43 points is less than 2 very bad races. A bit like a 12 points lead in a test match with 70 mins left.

 

 

No one has the lead Nico has and has not won it. No one. BUT, its been a Lewis bad luck time. Two Nico DNF;s and LH leads. But if Nico plays safe takes second most races, the odd win he wins. But he won't IMHO, he's learnt that being fast and stable is a silver medal, he will push




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  Reply # 1554364 17-May-2016 19:38
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Zippity:

 

Oh Dear. Hamilton is now watching the 2016 DWC fade into the distance.

 

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy cool

 

'

 

He is an excellent driver, no doubt, but he needs to be a man. He's not under pressure, so he should push hard. And get the fans back on track. Give himself a legacy. Its all about how you end, not how you start


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  Reply # 1554365 17-May-2016 19:39
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tdgeek:

 

joker97:

 

tdgeek:

 

joker97: The I think I'm just going to dive in and hope he has more to lose (because I won't get another chance at overtaking) is because that's true! Then one of three things happen
1 driver ahead gives in and lets a pass
2 driver ahead blocks and either results in there other fella lifting off or accept a crash
3 wheel to wheel racing and see who wins

 

Its the opposite. Its only 5 points to Rosberg, but its stops the rot for Lewis. Now the points gap is unchanged and one race left. 43 from 17 is now 43 from 16

 

 

I have to say, no one is looking at the trophy now. 43 points is less than 2 very bad races. A bit like a 12 points lead in a test match with 70 mins left.

 

 

No one has the lead Nico has and has not won it. No one. BUT, its been a Lewis bad luck time. Two Nico DNF;s and LH leads. But if Nico plays safe takes second most races, the odd win he wins. But he won't IMHO, he's learnt that being fast and stable is a silver medal, he will push

 

 

Yeah but I don't like to use historical stats to tell the future ... let's see ... as far as I'm concerned, anything can happen so early on in the season. Don't count the chicks ...




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  Reply # 1554380 17-May-2016 20:23
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joker97:

 

tdgeek:

 

joker97:

 

tdgeek:

 

joker97: The I think I'm just going to dive in and hope he has more to lose (because I won't get another chance at overtaking) is because that's true! Then one of three things happen
1 driver ahead gives in and lets a pass
2 driver ahead blocks and either results in there other fella lifting off or accept a crash
3 wheel to wheel racing and see who wins

 

Its the opposite. Its only 5 points to Rosberg, but its stops the rot for Lewis. Now the points gap is unchanged and one race left. 43 from 17 is now 43 from 16

 

 

I have to say, no one is looking at the trophy now. 43 points is less than 2 very bad races. A bit like a 12 points lead in a test match with 70 mins left.

 

 

No one has the lead Nico has and has not won it. No one. BUT, its been a Lewis bad luck time. Two Nico DNF;s and LH leads. But if Nico plays safe takes second most races, the odd win he wins. But he won't IMHO, he's learnt that being fast and stable is a silver medal, he will push

 

 

Yeah but I don't like to use historical stats to tell the future ... let's see ... as far as I'm concerned, anything can happen so early on in the season. Don't count the chicks ...

 

 

Thats not my quote, just passing it on. As stated 2 DNF's and LH leads. All to play for, but IMHO Rosberg will be tough, he's past that stable solid stage, go for gold every race now.


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  Reply # 1554385 17-May-2016 20:40
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Lewis was only making such a aggressive move because his start was dreadful. Weaving around the road trying to block him off only for Nico to drive on past.




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  Reply # 1554531 18-May-2016 07:17
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benokobi:

 

Lewis was only making such a aggressive move because his start was dreadful. Weaving around the road trying to block him off only for Nico to drive on past.

 

 

Thats a reason many are saying, passing to make up, not passing as its a real opportunity. It was an opportunity, but Nico's angle was high, plain to see the ever decreasing wedge to the grass. If it was non grass lewis could have gone on, left two wheels on the track and passed, but grass, that was the huge risk he knew it would be. If Noco had seen he had got his free wheel to his rear wheel and straightened, he's still on the grass


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  Reply # 1554536 18-May-2016 07:56
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tdgeek:

 

benokobi:

 

 

 

Lewis was only making such a aggressive move because his start was dreadful. Weaving around the road trying to block him off only for Nico to drive on past.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats a reason many are saying, passing to make up, not passing as its a real opportunity. It was an opportunity, but Nico's angle was high, plain to see the ever decreasing wedge to the grass. If it was non grass lewis could have gone on, left two wheels on the track and passed, but grass, that was the huge risk he knew it would be. If Noco had seen he had got his free wheel to his rear wheel and straightened, he's still on the grass

 



@6FIEND I just watched the thing again you're right the was no time for Lewis to lift off at the point when his nose poked beside Nico's rear wheels because he was already in the grass

But this happens all the time. Why did Lewis try it on? Because
1. He saw Nico's mistake that was a big invitation
2. The Nico of this time last year would have yielded

I he now knows to think twice




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  Reply # 1554539 18-May-2016 08:04
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joker97:
tdgeek:

 

benokobi:

 

 

 

Lewis was only making such a aggressive move because his start was dreadful. Weaving around the road trying to block him off only for Nico to drive on past.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats a reason many are saying, passing to make up, not passing as its a real opportunity. It was an opportunity, but Nico's angle was high, plain to see the ever decreasing wedge to the grass. If it was non grass lewis could have gone on, left two wheels on the track and passed, but grass, that was the huge risk he knew it would be. If Noco had seen he had got his free wheel to his rear wheel and straightened, he's still on the grass

 



@8FIEND I just watched the thing again you're right the was no time for Lewis to lift off at the point when his nose poked beside Nico's rear wheels because he was already in the grass

But this happens all the time. Why did Lewis try it on? Because
1. He saw Nico's mistake that was a big invitation
2. The Nico of this time last year would have yielded

I he now knows to think twice

 

If Nico gave way then, he woudnt have to move left, he would just need to cease the block move and go straight? lewis can pass on the right, as long as he leaves the left wheels on the track (otherwise exceeding track limits) Its all about the grass IMHO




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  Reply # 1554542 18-May-2016 08:13
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6FIEND:

 

I recognise that I'm unlikely to get anyone to change their (already formed) opinions, but the FIA Sporting Regulations actually state:

 

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.

 

This unquestionably alongside, and Lewis is still 100% within track limits.

 

 

Aside - Hamilton apologised to the Mercedes Team for the incident resulting in a loss of 43 point or them - he did not apologise to Rosberg, not did he accept responsibility for it.

 

Also, FIA Formula One World Championship Sporting Regulations cover overtaking under "incidents":

 

"Incident means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which:

 

- caused an avoidable collision;
- forced a driver off the track;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.

 

 

It is my opinion that all four of those apply to Rosberg's move.

 

 

 

And finally:

 

Chapter IV: Code of Driving Conduct on Circuits

 

1 - Overtaking

 

a) "during a race, a car alone on the track may use the full width of the said track. However, as soon as it is caught up on a straight by a car which is either temporarily or constantly faster, the driver shall give the other vehicle the right of way...

 

(emphasis is mine)

 

Bottom line is that the incident was reviewed by the Stewards, and deemed a racing incident.  I suspect some of the rationale behind that decision was a) both effected parties were DNF, so neither gained an advantage from it, but mostly b) not wanting to detract from the fairy tale-esque win by Max.

 

 

 

[Edited with correct source regulation]

 

 

 

 

Q: Lewis seems to have apologised to Nico. Is that a ‘plea of guilty’?

 

TW: Yes, it is true that Lewis apologised to Nico

 

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/interviews/2016/5/toto-wolff-q-a--neither-hamilton-nor-rosberg-directly-to-blame.html

 

 

 

 


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