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  Reply # 1554550 18-May-2016 08:28
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tdgeek: 

 

Q: Lewis seems to have apologised to Nico. Is that a ‘plea of guilty’?

 

TW: Yes, it is true that Lewis apologised to Nico

 

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/interviews/2016/5/toto-wolff-q-a--neither-hamilton-nor-rosberg-directly-to-blame.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

I stand corrected.  But, you're missing the full context.

 

 

 

 

TW: Yes, it is true that Lewis apologised to Nico - but that is our culture within the team. Both, of course, were pretty unhappy about the situation - that the team was let down. And I think that both know that they are not faultless in that situation

 

 

I suggest that is far from an admission of guilt and an acceptance of responsibility on Hamilton's part, as was originally claimed.




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  Reply # 1554558 18-May-2016 08:35
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6FIEND:

 

tdgeek: 

 

Q: Lewis seems to have apologised to Nico. Is that a ‘plea of guilty’?

 

TW: Yes, it is true that Lewis apologised to Nico

 

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/interviews/2016/5/toto-wolff-q-a--neither-hamilton-nor-rosberg-directly-to-blame.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

I stand corrected.  But, you're missing the full context.

 

 

 

 

TW: Yes, it is true that Lewis apologised to Nico - but that is our culture within the team. Both, of course, were pretty unhappy about the situation - that the team was let down. And I think that both know that they are not faultless in that situation

 

 

I suggest that is far from an admission of guilt and an acceptance of responsibility on Hamilton's part, as was originally claimed.

 

 

Quite possibly. That was said very early on though. His attitude these days doesnt really allow anything to other drivers, just the team, but just my opinion


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1554570 18-May-2016 09:00
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6FIEND:

 

I recognise that I'm unlikely to get anyone to change their (already formed) opinions, but the FIA Sporting Regulations actually state:

 

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.

 

This unquestionably alongside, and Lewis is still 100% within track limits.

 

 

Aside - Hamilton apologised to the Mercedes Team for the incident resulting in a loss of 43 point or them - he did not apologise to Rosberg, not did he accept responsibility for it.

 

Also, FIA Formula One World Championship Sporting Regulations cover overtaking under "incidents":

 

"Incident means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which:

 

- caused an avoidable collision;
- forced a driver off the track;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.

 

 

It is my opinion that all four of those apply to Rosberg's move.

 

 

 

And finally:

 

Chapter IV: Code of Driving Conduct on Circuits

 

1 - Overtaking

 

a) "during a race, a car alone on the track may use the full width of the said track. However, as soon as it is caught up on a straight by a car which is either temporarily or constantly faster, the driver shall give the other vehicle the right of way...

 

(emphasis is mine)

 

Bottom line is that the incident was reviewed by the Stewards, and deemed a racing incident.  I suspect some of the rationale behind that decision was a) both effected parties were DNF, so neither gained an advantage from it, but mostly b) not wanting to detract from the fairy tale-esque win by Max.

 

 

 

[Edited with correct source regulation]

 

 

I've only just managed to see slow mo replays analyses etc. I still can't say one was clearly wrong. In terms of the many words in the FIA rule book, it's clear if someone came alongside me, I smile at him then move the car sideways to push him wide. This one ...

 

The fact that they didn't penalise Rosberg was probably because

 

1 - He started his "block" wayyy before Hamilton got anywhere near Rosberg. You can freeze one frame of a (if 50 fps that means 1/20th of a second) video that shows that for 1/20th of a second Rosberg was wrong and should have yielded. Or you can say as an F1 driver with super reactions, Hamilton drove into a space that was fast disappearing because a block move was clearly on.

 

The fact that they didn't penalise Hamilton was clearly because

 

1 - He was invited to pass because of Rosberg's clear mistake - the flashing red light. He made a calculated (had to make that decision - continue full gas to the edge vs lift off - in less than 1/20th of a second) decision to try to pass, thinking Rosberg would be gentlemanly and yield. He had every right to try to pass. He didn't crash into Rosberg on purpose.

 

I guess if someone was less wrong it was ... Hamilton! But no I still cannot say Rosberg was wrong.





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  Reply # 1554605 18-May-2016 09:33
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I think we'll agree to disagree :-)

 

I think that all the focus in looking to attribute blame has been at the wrong "end" of the incident which, as you say, is measured in fractions of a second.   All that proves is that Hamilton was legally alongside Rosberg before being forced off the track.  You need to look at the start of the move - which was even earlier than this shot

 

 

That gap is HUGE, and hasn't begun to close yet, and Hamilton is already committed to it.

 

The speed differential is also very high on account of Nico's error.

 

For Nico, to acknowledge that he saw Lewis go for the pass on the right and "strongly shut the door" (without leaving a car's width of space as he's required to by the regs), knowing that he's travelling significantly slower than the overtaking vehicle because his engine had been harvesting - that to me lays fault for the incident entirely with him.

 

Ironically, had Lewis held his position rather that drive off track to avoid the collision - the most likely outcome would have been Nico getting spun around, Lewis losing his front wing, and battling back to score a likely 12-15 points for Mercedes.


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  Reply # 1554958 18-May-2016 16:07
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You can bet from now on, that Hamilton will think twice before attempting to pull a fast one over his team mate.

 

Rosberg has shown that he is no longer afraid to take it to the sniveling Pom smile


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  Reply # 1562572 30-May-2016 19:41
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

No one has the lead Nico has and has not won it. No one. BUT, its been a Lewis bad luck time. Two Nico DNF;s and LH leads. But if Nico plays safe takes second most races, the odd win he wins. But he won't IMHO, he's learnt that being fast and stable is a silver medal, he will push

 

 

And suddenly it's just 24 points. That's less than one converted try with 65 mins to go in a test match. I have a feeling your statisticians didn't tell you that in the past a win was worth 10-12 points, whereas it's now 25.

 

Anyway, see, Nico moves across on Hamilton, Hamilton moves across on Ricciardo, people do this a lot.

 

But take nothing away from that guy, he knows how to win. Unfortunately.





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  Reply # 1562621 30-May-2016 20:18
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joker97:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

No one has the lead Nico has and has not won it. No one. BUT, its been a Lewis bad luck time. Two Nico DNF;s and LH leads. But if Nico plays safe takes second most races, the odd win he wins. But he won't IMHO, he's learnt that being fast and stable is a silver medal, he will push

 

 

And suddenly it's just 24 points. That's less than one converted try with 65 mins to go in a test match. I have a feeling your statisticians didn't tell you that in the past a win was worth 10-12 points, whereas it's now 25.

 

Anyway, see, Nico moves across on Hamilton, Hamilton moves across on Ricciardo, people do this a lot.

 

But take nothing away from that guy, he knows how to win. Unfortunately.

 

 

Although with the ricciardo shot, there is a good gif of them both coming head on before the hand wave by Daniel and its quite clear that Hamilton left enough room between his wheels and the barrier for him, but daneil got on the power and the car wiggled causing him to think there wasn't enough.. links gone now but here is an image:

 

 

Hamilton continued straight on after this and didn't squeeze him out, plus this was on the racing line rather than off it at Barcelona.  He did compromise this though by his exit at the chicane, no advantage as Daniel got this close; had he locked up and turned in normally, this wouldn't have happened.


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  Reply # 1562626 30-May-2016 20:24
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I'd like to see that picture just before Riccardo braked, Hamilton was so slow out of the chicane. 


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  Reply # 1562627 30-May-2016 20:25
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mudguard:

 

I'd like to see that picture just before Riccardo braked, Hamilton was so slow out of the chicane. 

 

 

This was a still shot from that section, unfortunately FOM have removed the streamable image so if I can find another one I will; it seemed clear that Hamilton was clean with Daniel on the exit.


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  Reply # 1562628 30-May-2016 20:27
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Here we go: https://streamable.com/snhp

 

Looks like Lewis left enough space but forced Daniel on to the wet area near the barriers which caused the wobble of the redbull.


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  Reply # 1562629 30-May-2016 20:27
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Just watched that incident again, turns out he did leave a paper's width of space for DR if he wanted to come by, but no more. I think DR wobbled because that bit of track was very very dirty. So yeah, turns out fair game after all.





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  Reply # 1562630 30-May-2016 20:28
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My concern was cutting part of the chicane and then doing this. Most others had been quite gracious throughout the day when ballsing up that section and gaining an advantage. Basically if you've forced yourself to cut any of the corner, then you've gained an advantage by not having to stop your car sufficiently.

Anyhow, sitting around twiddling your thumbs whilst your team finds some tyres for you was the real offence on the day.

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  Reply # 1562632 30-May-2016 20:29
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mudguard:

 

I'd like to see that picture just before Riccardo braked, Hamilton was so slow out of the chicane. 

 

 

As above. Width of an F1 car + A4 paper's width of space. Very wily.





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  Reply # 1562634 30-May-2016 20:32
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Hmm that was from the rear. From the front it looks like there is more than an A4 paper's width given.





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  Reply # 1562635 30-May-2016 20:32
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Jaxson: My concern was cutting part of the chicane and then doing this. Most others had been quite gracious throughout the day when ballsing up that section and gaining an advantage. Basically if you've forced yourself to cut any of the corner, then you've gained an advantage by not having to stop your car sufficiently.

Anyhow, sitting around twiddling your thumbs whilst your team finds some tyres for you was the real offence on the day.

 

Normally, yes however I think this time that the slight cut compromised his exit massively and allowed Daniel to get close enough to try the overtake.  Had he just locked up, he would have had the right line through the chicane and blocked Daniel, even though he would have been going slower.


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