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Jas777
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  #2653220 10-Feb-2021 18:56
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TeaLeaf,

 

With regards to the women playing.

 

Who do you think could compete? I don't think any of the bowlers could. Sophie Devine may be but there isn't the cannon fodder bowling in the men's game especially with the 3,4,5 bowlers of most women's teams.


 
 
 
 

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tdgeek
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  #2653230 10-Feb-2021 19:27
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TeaLeaf:

 

The commentary during the BBL final was about trying to make it happen some how, not sure if there has been any more recent news.

If that is the case, Its looking more like NZ vs Eng at this stage then. Eng decimated Ind in Ind. I thought Eng batted wayyyy too long in their 2nd innings, to the point of absurdity, but none the less they got Ind out. IMO you should always leave as much time as possible to bowl a team out, scoring so many runs that makes it impossible for the other team to win is defeatous imo. Eng should have left it at 370 lead meaning Ind had to score one of the all time great come backs at 3.2rpo on the final day for a LOT of overs. Sometimes Kane does this too imo. I think Mccullum had a more "you have to play to win, to win" mentality. Kane luckily has a much better team around him to captain. But on occasion he is too defensive. NZ's winning record wont show that though, which again is largely due to the best all round team NZ has ever had. 

 

 

Are you saying that you know more than English professional cricketers, and Kane Williamson?

 

You "don't like" Santner. He is better than average.

 

You "love" Munro. He is costly.

 

Ross gets a nice score in a non international so he is No.4?

 

No, its not the best all round team NZ had had. Its got depth, its got "young guns" trying to make a mark. Its got potential. That's it

 

But if we play Ross etc till the pension is due, well you know the answer. We need to be like Australia was, if you are near a shoe in you have to produce otherwise you get dropped. 

 

Not saying we throw 18yo's into the International team but we have to grow them, and we are doing that to a degree, then no doubt we will drop them in favour of those with a proven record, even though that record was in their prime, a few years ago.


TeaLeaf

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  #2653275 10-Feb-2021 21:53
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Jas777:

 

TeaLeaf,

 

With regards to the women playing.

 

 

Id be looking at the Auckland Hearts, a number of medium pace in terms of speed, but a couple of them are getting more swing than Southee. Also a couple of the spinners in Otago team are getting the ball a lot of flight and well above eye line. 

I think a few of those bowlers might surprise the men, not meaning the blackcaps such, but the domestic mens teams. I think it would be fun to get a SI and NI mixed mens and womans T20 state of origin going (or island as it is). Of course the women would probably not bowl at the openers, but I think 3-4 of them, their swing and the spinners flight is up there with the mens standard. Clearly not the pace though. But you dont need pace when the ball swings through the gate :-).




TeaLeaf

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  #2653279 10-Feb-2021 22:08
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tdgeek:

 

Are you saying that you know more than English professional cricketers, and Kane Williamson?

 

 

Where the f,,p did that come from? Bit left field bro.

I dont love Munro, but hes performing and in a much more competitive comp than the NZ super smash.

Santner I like, but he only fits in the team if he is absolutely needed. Imo Williamson could bowl 4 overs just as well and that would provide NZ the chance to use their young guns, like Aus does. 

Im not disagreeing with you at all, quite the opposite. 

 

As for Ross, no has nothing to do with his SSmash innings. But the coach and commentary has eluded too he wont be used in T20s at home but will be in the WC squad. Ross is NZ's best attacking Batsman in the 3 forms of the game, and hes not out of form, so why wouldnt they use him. There is still room for the young guns and Conway at the top of the order. But if you have the experience of Taylor and Williamson, who will anchor an innings, and in the case of Ross, attack the bad balls to the boundary, they are far too good a resource not to be in the team. But I do not think they need to be in the team to play Aus. 

I find it hard to see how the team I listed could be any better other than including Williamson by dropping Santner. Who else is possibly in contention based on recent domestic and international t20 form? Ive watched every game this summer (including the overseas tests). domestically those players have proven themselves and some proved themselves in the WI and Pak t20s. The one bowler I might swap Boult out for is a fit Lockie, he delivers with the white ball. Boult just hasnt been his best since he played through that injury in Aus. Not saying shouldnt be in the squad, just think if Lockie was fit, those two would be a change up depending on the surface and atmospheric conditions. 

I think NZ is 1 year away from being a top 3 T20 team, is a shame the WC is so soon. Still think if they choose those players who can score a 50 in 20-25 balls, NZ will be very competitive. If they select our test team for T20s, we will not be competitive. Those opening 3-4 players who can hit those quick 50s are now the basis of most T20 squads, domestically around the world and internationally. 

I think Larsen will finally get the T20 squads right, I expect a lot of people demanding he gives credit to these players who are clearly born to bat t20 fury.

I think eventually the NZ t20 team will look like I listed but with some interchange, giving flexibility to extend the depth of batting and conversely using the attacking bowlers on the right pitches and the swing bowlers in the right atmospheric conditions. So much depth. Still a good 5-6 players that could be included.

1.Finn Allen
2. Colin Munro
3. Devon Conway
4. Glenn Phillips
5. Ross Taylor
6. Tim Seifert 
7. Kyle Jamieson
8. Santner (Williamson but push Taylor to 6, Willy at 5)
9. Ish sodhi (Santner and potentially Ajaz to compete for this spot depending on the pitch/conditions)
10. Southee
11. Boult (Lockie, straight swap for Boult)


tdgeek
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  #2654379 11-Feb-2021 07:11
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TeaLeaf:

 

 

 

Where the f,,p did that come from? Bit left field bro.

I dont love Munro, but hes performing and in a much more competitive comp than the NZ super smash.

Santner I like, but he only fits in the team if he is absolutely needed. Imo Williamson could bowl 4 overs just as well and that would provide NZ the chance to use their young guns, like Aus does. 

 

 

Referring to "I thought Eng batted wayyyy too long in their 2nd innings, to the point of absurdity, but none the less they got Ind out. IMO you should always leave as much time as possible to bowl a team out, scoring so many runs that makes it impossible for the other team to win is defeatous imo. Eng should have left it at 370 lead meaning Ind had to score one of the all time great come backs at 3.2rpo on the final day for a LOT of overs. Sometimes Kane does this too imo."

 

Munro has proven himself to be a BMC, except BMC missed out every now and then and Munro gets a top score just every now and then. We dont need to go there again

 

Santner you always bagged. hes good now, bowling is not bad, batting is much better, and he took catching lessons I think :-)


NotATurkey
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  #2654387 11-Feb-2021 07:30
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tdgeek:
Santner you always bagged. hes good now, bowling is not bad, batting is much better, and he took catching lessons I think :-)


100% disagree. Santner is the weakest link in the team.
We shouldn't be picking a spinner on his batting ability, and if we were we may as well just put in an extra batsmen at this stage.

Vettori is still a more capable spinner than Santner and he's 42!

tdgeek
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  #2654392 11-Feb-2021 07:47
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Lol ok. he can bat and he gets 6's, and as a bonus he can spin




BlinkyBill
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  #2654430 11-Feb-2021 09:30
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For the final, we’ll put out the team we put out. England look pretty strong, they completely outplayed India in Chennai. India seem inconsistent but surely they can at least tie the series at home?

 

So should be NZ/India in the final, and those would be relatively equal teams. But if we get England I think they should win comfortably. Boult hasn’t used the Duke ball for 4 years.


tdgeek
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  #2654434 11-Feb-2021 09:38
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With Boult out of form, he's replaced by another wicket taking machine Jamieson? Look locally for another seam bowler, or Boult needs to hit form

 

I dont follow how a bowler can be off form?


NotATurkey
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  #2654437 11-Feb-2021 09:41
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We are still more likely to get Aussie in the final than England.

If England win at least 3 of 4 games we play them.
If Ind win at least 2 games AND the series we play them.
Otherwise we play Aussie.

Jas777
838 posts

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  #2654464 11-Feb-2021 10:04
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TeaLeaf:

 

Jas777:

 

TeaLeaf,

 

With regards to the women playing.

 

 

Id be looking at the Auckland Hearts, a number of medium pace in terms of speed, but a couple of them are getting more swing than Southee. Also a couple of the spinners in Otago team are getting the ball a lot of flight and well above eye line. 

I think a few of those bowlers might surprise the men, not meaning the blackcaps such, but the domestic mens teams. I think it would be fun to get a SI and NI mixed mens and womans T20 state of origin going (or island as it is). Of course the women would probably not bowl at the openers, but I think 3-4 of them, their swing and the spinners flight is up there with the mens standard. Clearly not the pace though. But you dont need pace when the ball swings through the gate :-).

 

 

Might surprise for 1 ball but after that be easy. Swing at 100 - 110 kph would be easy to play as just go with the swing all day. The problem is that not many if any of the women swing bowlers can swing it both ways with the same skill at pace.

 

The only way it would trouble the men is if can get up to 130 - 140kph.

 

 


TeaLeaf

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  #2654663 11-Feb-2021 14:29
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Disagree, everybody is entitled to an opinion, thats sport. 

 

What an amazing innings by Will Young. George Worker and Taylor miss out, but Worker has been up there this year, not quite Finn Allen level, but still another player to throw in the mix based on form.

Canterybury would have loved to be playing in the final against Welli, alongside the female team who got straight through thanks to Auckland Hearts belting Welli Blaze on the weekend (which is a rematch this afternoon to see who plays in the final in Wellington on weekend vs Canterbury womens team). I cant see Cant Kings getting up here, Stags have put on a deep score thanks to that century in 45 balls from W Young.

Fran Jonas is one of the Otago spinners I was referring to, she has made the Ferns team, at 16 years old, to have that much skill at spin bowling, normally takes a lot of years, to have that much wiley guile. 


TeaLeaf

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  #2654668 11-Feb-2021 14:33
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NotATurkey: We are still more likely to get Aussie in the final than England.

If England win at least 3 of 4 games we play them.
If Ind win at least 2 games AND the series we play them.
Otherwise we play Aussie.


The math was too hard for me haha, how did you work that out by the way? Just your own math or is there a scenario type thread out there on the net?

Eng at home wont be easy, Aus and Ind are fairly similar, in saying that, this current NZ test team is not the one that lost 3-0 to Aus and Aus is not quite the same as the team we lost to, although by time the WCT is played most of the aussies will be fit again. Its in more conditions similar to our own, so I think we will be competitive if we make it whoever we play.


TeaLeaf

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  #2654675 11-Feb-2021 14:48
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NotATurkey: 

Vettori is still a more capable spinner than Santner and he's 42!


I think Fran Jonas is a better spinner than Santner and she is only 16yo lmao, no seriously, but she cant bat as well as Santner. 

Im more keen on using Williamson as the Batsman who can bowl a bit of spin, he is way better than he shows, Mccullum use to make him bowl, since then he just doesnt bowl himself, but he wont be the t20 captain, so I think his bowling has to be part of why he makes the team.

 

I think Sodhi has improved his own batting out of sight and hes become somewhat of a t20 specialist. Lockie is one of our best white ball bowlers, Jamieson hopefully can impress too, but hes in there because he can bat a bit and at  fast rate. Whoever they select they need to have mastery of change of pace and if not express pace, be able to swing the ball both ways. I think Boult has to be in the squad, but his form is worrying. Daryl Mitchell is a good option as well, hes a far better t20 player than a test player. I think you can only afford 1, 2 bowlers at the most who are near to useless with the bat. Lockie and Boult are probably the 2. However Lockie was in great form with the ball prior to his injury. 

Who would want to be a NZ T20 selector, Larsen always disappoints me with a couple of obvious players he has left out in the past, but I just hope the players mentioned are at least in the squad, which then leaves it up to the captain and coach, who will play them. No selection is easy but with our aging legacy team and now we have genuine great batting options, even young express pace bowler options (not just Lockie), it is time we started selecting these young guys who are producing, so that when the legacy players do retire, we are not left high and dry.


TeaLeaf

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  #2654683 11-Feb-2021 15:33
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Wow Canterbury, that was GONE, but Mitchell stands up AGAIN along with Cam Fletcher, in a final no doubt. That was a big score to chase down and if Mitchell had gotten out early, they had zero chance.

Given Mitchell being in form, I think he has to be the batsman who bowls a bit also, somewhere in the squad if not the team.

Geeze my squad is getting packed now haha, how many men is the t20 WC squad, 20?

Again another T20 that goes down to the final ball, just awesome. 

Now for Auckland Hearts to bowl Welli out for zip, to make the final. 

Its not really a bad place for NZ to be in with so many players both BCs and Aus/NZ domestic comps in form. I think it revolves around whether Williamson is played and if he is, he has to bowl so the batting lineup can be longer, might have to change my WC Final dream team from the squad Im expecting. 

LOVE cricket, so dissapointed but grateful at same time we had a short home season this year internationally. But our Domestic game is getting really packed with quality players.

Bowling wise, young Ben Spears for Welli has to also be in the thoughts of selection. He has all the skils and red hot pace (145+). I was worried losing Taylor, then Boult and Southee would ruin our team 4 years ago, but there is so much depth now.

Colin De Gran Homme I am sure is also in the squad as such. Another Batsman who can bowl a bit. We have 4 quality all rounders and a few bowlers who can bat a bit. So T20 wise, you join that with the top 6 batsmen and we have a long batting line and bowlers who can take wickets along with all rounders who know how to restrict the run flow.


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