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  # 1964102 25-Feb-2018 22:09
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TeaLeaf:

 

Game over. Even Taylor and Nichols wont guide them at 6.3RPO for 40 overs.

 

 

More like 2.

 

5 of the top 7 batsmen scored 27 runs. Our top order you need to cross fingers and toes and hope. 


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  # 1964103 25-Feb-2018 22:11
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TeaLeaf:

 

NOW is why SANTNER is in the team. Hasnt stood up yet hence why people dont see his value. Can he turn it around.

 

 

Actually many see his value, thats why he is a permanent player. As to the NOW, as the commentators, its not NOW its often.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1964104 25-Feb-2018 22:12
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Dingbatt: So the two players in the title are major contributors to NZ's scratchy win!
Maybe the player they should be looking at is Williamson. Bats like he's in a test match and goes out for 8 having wasted 24 deliveries.

And in answer to the question above, apparently Santner can stand up when it matters, although he did leave it rather late.

Some pretty average umpiring in the last couple of overs when it came to illegal deliveries.

 

Santner is a very good bowler. He can hit the ball, which is a bonus. But unlike the OP, his role is not to score 43 from 18, but he dod tonight (after being 2 for 9)


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  # 1964105 25-Feb-2018 22:13
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The man of the match is Latham.


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  # 1964108 25-Feb-2018 22:16
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TeaLeaf:

 

U rippa Santner, about blimmin time, 2 years and I think maybe its clicked in his head why he is there.

 

Hes there to score 20-40 at 120SR+ EVERY game.

 

 

Oh, thanks for the update, i thought his role was as a bowler...... Southee is also a batsman who can bowl as well?


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  # 1964110 25-Feb-2018 22:17
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tdgeek:

The man of the match is Latham.



Bugger, they gave the cheque to Taylor by mistake!




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  # 1964112 25-Feb-2018 22:22
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TeaLeaf:

 

U rippa Santner, about blimmin time, 2 years and I think maybe its clicked in his head why he is there.

 

Hes there to score 20-40 at 120SR+ EVERY game.

 

 

Whatever he does, you will find some reason to irrationally hate him.

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1964120 25-Feb-2018 22:33
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Dingbatt:
tdgeek:

 

The man of the match is Latham.

 



Bugger, they gave the cheque to Taylor by mistake!

 

They did!!

 

Here is why I think this.. Many for the benefit of the OP

 

If Taylor goes for 5 we dont mind, as he delivers. If he goes for 45, 75, 105, we are not surprised, he is our best batsman (and deserves MOTM)

 

Santner scored better than his average by less than 20 runs, so a nice bonus contribution, plus his SR was magic

 

Latham was an opener, but if he goes for less than 20 thats expected. For him to get 79, is against the odds from his average and his form, so his was the real and unexpected bonus

 

 

 

The sad thing is we just got there. After a century, AND Santner excelling at runs and SR, AND Latham actually scoring,  79. What odds would that be? 500/1

 

Again our top order fails. 5 of our top 7 batsmen scored 27 runs in total. That is horrific. If they all got 27 each, thats not a greta day at the office, but at least its runs on the board. As it happens, it coincided with a 500/1 effort as above. We are a delicate side. 




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  # 1964304 26-Feb-2018 10:32
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tdgeek:

 

Latham 79, is against the odds from his average and his form, so his was the real and unexpected bonus

 

 

Yes considering he averages 20 at home thats where we want him, admiettedly he was dropped twice hehe, which in all fairness would have won the game for Eng. But you take your luck when you can get it.

 

This is why I said lets play Latham but down the order and see how he goes. Me theory is the same as Guptil at Test level, he doesnt play his natural game. Still Im not going to make up my mind on Latham at home just yet, we do have better batsman keepers imo pressing on the domestic door. If you put Phillips in it would keep momentum of the openers (on a day they suceed lol).

 

What on earth was Williamson doing?

 

My gut fear is, 8/10 one of Munro or Guptill will hit a 50/30. 5/10 both of them. Thats good. Gets us off to 10rpo for lets say 8 overs. But what happens next is old fuddy duddy Williamson comes in an plays test cricket or gets out, like the commentators said, no doubt hes out of form. So is it Kane who needs a short dropping?

 

Taylor deserved MoM clearly. Sure he might not score like Guptill and besides that 2 years he was out of form, hes Mr Consistent.

 

Santner did what he has been selected for after a year or two now. SEE he CAN do it. I never doubted he can. I doubted his bottle. Every kid gets taught how to bowl slow off spin, there a dime a dozen, his strength in bowling is hitting that good zone 95/100. One of his wickets last night was off one of his few bad balls rofl, you take them when they come. But its his batting that I have been on his case for. Up until now he has only ever scored runs when they are not needed, ie no pressure or he gets out. Last night, he either had to score a single and let southee try or do it himself, he manned up and did the latter, I applaud that. So now we know he is capable, can he do it 6/10 not 1/49? I think the coach should be blowing smoke and telling him good boy and patting his head and telling him thats how you are asked to play your position.

 

But lets not get ahead of ourselves, that was the worst game I seen Eng play outside the champion trophy in 2 years. Jos Butler would normally have put another 40 runs on that total at the end (although our bowlers finally learnt what a wide yorker and taking the pace off means, well done Southee). They still had players in the shed as good as Latham with a much higher SR. Even their #10 has scored 5 county 1st class centuries. I knew our only hope was around 280ish.

 

The real concern is, if we are not chasing, we will get bogged down with Williamson and 4rpo for 30 overs and its game over before it even started. I think Williamson if he wins the toss should bowl no matter the conditions every time, as if we bat first, we will just set a target that beats WI, ie 270ish.

 

We should be aiming for 300 every game minimum to compete with Eng.

 

Our fielding has gotten ultra sloppy and yes Santner does need a stick, even the commentary giggle now when he drops one, but its not funny anymore. Much like Sodhi has taken upon himself to improve his batting and fielding (he was terrible and only just a bit better now), Santner needs to take it upon himself to do some catching practise as its not a one off which can happen to anybody.

 

But yep I dont rate our batting line up much either TDgeek, I dont know where to fix it. I think intent has gone since Mccullum even with Guptill and Munro, they arent captain. Big Mac instructed every player to play offensive no matter the position we were in, and thats what hes taken to Eng and thats what the coach has said has turned them around. Intent. If we bat first and our intent is push it around for a few singles every over, we wont beat any of the top 4 teams consistently. We got lucky last night, lets not kid ourselves, as much as I cheered, Latham dropped twice, had either those gone to hand it was all over and to even get a partnership like that is not the norm.

 

Id like to see another batsman in our team and I think it should be Phillips. Hes been so consistent for so long, hes young, hes one of our best keepers and he has a very healthy strike rate. But not give him 1 or 2 matches, give him the go they have given Latham and Santner. Boy it would be handy if we had a real genuine Bowler Batsman all rounder like hadlee or kalis. ok asking for one of the greats might be a bit much. I dont know who we would drop as 2 of our bowlers are already all rounders, and its going to be hard to drop Santner now, and we cant drop a bowler, unless Kane bowls with Munro. Or just give Munro the role, he started his career as a bowler.

 

Why is Bairstow not keeper, he keeps at the highest level, how did Jos Butler miss that stumping.....


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  # 1964313 26-Feb-2018 10:55
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Munro is getting difficult. His big hits dont mean much when his ratio of getting a start are falling. 5 out of out top 7 scored 27 runs in total.

 

DeG is becoming a problem. His ratio of a "50/30" is plummeting. We seem to use him for the once every 5 games, and as we dont win many games, when he does fire, it probably wont matter

 

Kane needs to bat way down, a support role for the tail.

 

Santner was selected to bowl, he has long achieved that, his own goal was to progress to a bowler that can bat. His average is fine, he is getting better, that is merely a bonus, not what he was selcted for, and he wont get dropped, thats never been on the table, except for yours. He is a better bowler than Sodhi, however both should be there, as they are different, and despite your repeated denial, Santner varies speed and flight, along with a couple other tricks. Don;t beleive me, believe everyone else, they all say the same

 

You say that was the worst ENG played for a while? I believe you. They should have creamed us last night. Our batting was woeful. It took a century which is not common, AND Santner to bat double his average, not common. and woeful Latham to get 79, not common. You would never bet on those three things happening in none game, let alone when every other batter was terrible. It was a fluke. yet ENG didnt play well, that shows how delicate and unstable we are. Pure luck, the ducks lined up on this occasion




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  # 1964371 26-Feb-2018 12:15
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tdgeek:

 

Santner was selected to bowl, he has long achieved that, his own goal was to progress to a bowler that can bat. 

 

 

He was selected during the pakistan series as a specialist batsman. He is a bowler how bats I agree, but thats not what they want from him. Unfortunately I cant think of a genuine Bowler who is also a batsman. No Hadlees around at this point in time.

 

Yes Englands last bad game was against Pakistan in the champion Trophy, of all times to have a melt down. And it was on a very similar pitch, slow. Admittedly Pakistan were playing amazing and also went on to beat the #1 India to win the Trophy, I think in all Pak won 11 in a row until NZ.

 

Yes DGH had a great period at home before he had to leave for bereavement. His bowling isnt the best, but he has been one of our best in 1st class for a long time, should have been picked in his prime not end of career.

 

If there was another bowler in our batting Id say drop DGH for Phillips and let him keep so Latham only has to concentrate on batting. And yes perhaps shuffle Kane down the order for a while. We definitely need an extra batsman, I dont know how outside using Munro as a bowler, hes shown he can pick it up again, and like I said he was a bowler before becoming a batsman. I think give the captaincy to Guptill or Taylor who are far more aggressive thinking.

 

Williamson down the order with Santner if he improves could be our fail safe, and get damn Southee into a batting clinic, hes 20x better than he puts out. Probably the most naturally talented batsman who throws his wicket away Ive ever seen. His eye is insane, how he hits some of his boundaries is super human. Sodhi has already been reported as working on his batting and fielding, so if he can average 30 eventually that would be good and boult can tonk it. Perhaps move Taylor to 3, Latham to 4, Nichols to 5, Williamson to 6 and if we had Phillips Id have him at 4 as hes another Guptill, agressive opener.

 

I think Todd Astle has had his go, it appears the selectors are set on Santner so why waste a position by picking Astle in the camp. You could drop Sodhi and use Astle I guess, but Sodhi is a better bowler and his batting is now on par with Astles, so not much of a win there.

 

No, our problems are from 3 onward (outside Taylor). Get Phillips in, try Munro as a bowler and get Kane working on his bowling as he could be just as effective as Santner if he spent some time actually practising it. Put Taylor to 3, Phillips to 4, Nicholls to 5 Latham to 6. That gives a bit more batting power and spreads the power a bit. Plus I think Taylor can easily handle 3 and hold his bat for half of his innings.


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  # 1964407 26-Feb-2018 13:04
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Links to show Santner was picked as a specialist batsman.

 

DeG, first class doesn't always translate to a national side, thats showing now

 

Taylor needs to be after the other noted batsmen, then Williamson. KW can rotate to Taylor or what noted partner he gets, then he needs to step up with the tail. Being away from the new ball and tier 1 bowlers will help him

 

Munro is no good at bowling, he gets a wicket as the batter goes after him. I'd prefer more bowling talent.

 

But the bottom line is we are not a great side, last night showed that, we lucked in with unexpected efforts. If ENG didnt play well, that makes us look worse. We perhaps need to give others a go more often. No point in hanging on to the the trusted ones and every now and then the planets line up for us

 

While going hard is the latest thing, we struggle with that, so lets go back to the old school, build an innings with Guptill Taylor and Kane. The only focus is not losing wickets. Then at over 10, start to hit out. What we are doing isn't working because we go out

 

 




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  # 1964444 26-Feb-2018 14:16
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tdgeek:

 

Links to show Santner was picked as a specialist batsman.

 

 

 

 

Not going to try, probably wasnt even noted, but thats how it was read out in commentary, replaced Nichols I believe.

 

They would NOT be picking Santner for his bowling, there are far better bowlers around. His form of bowling is what every kid is taught, slow finger spin, the fact he is accurate is what makes him economical and his pitchs maps show that. He is definitely in the team to be a batsman as well, initial thoughts were he would be a 30+ average guy, but as you said, first class doesnt always transfer. I personally think hes been a bit lazy with the bat and not putting enough effort into improving his skill. Hes had long enough for it to not be bad luck and last night showed what he can do. Thats exactly what he was picked to do, be our last saviour, but thats the first time in 49 matches.

 

I dont know why you are so hung up on Santner, hes just as at fault as any of our batsmen.

 

I like how cricket NZ are using our smaller grounds for mid week games, bay oval, whangarei, Pukekura Park (my fav) etc. There are some amazingly beautiful cricket grounds in NZ that dont get used even at 1st class level that should. we are lucky to have some of the most picturesque cricket parks in the world.

 

I think we will see Ferguson play on Wednesday in Tauraunga. Id assume they will drop Sodhi. If not they will use him in the South Island Im sure.

 

The current squad is only for the first few games, so we might see some new blood come through, but honestly, it should have happened against WI and Pak. Im 50/50 on Nicholls. I guess we gotta keep him, AVG 35 at about SR80ish. Id liked to see him up the anti a bit.

 

Munro is a better bowler than that, he just hasnt been a bowler for years. His economy isnt so bad at 4.88. His 1st class is great 2.72 avg27, but that would mostly be from when he was a lot quicker. Hes no part time bowler, hes an ex bowler.

 

Given almost all the Eng team bowl, I think we should be able to get more than 3 genuine bowlers and 2 all rounders. Use the talent we have so we can strengthen the batting.

 

Yep we were very lucky to get the win, I said pre game Eng would be good for 330, anything under 300 they would be ropeable and 280 we have a chance. Its those final overs from Southee that probably one it for us, those wide yorkers and pace change up. Hes got it going finally. Even so normally Jos Butler would find the boundary from any delivery, you could see he was not at his best despite his score.

 

Who knows, a bit of confidence and our opening bowlers may lift and do what Aus couldnt and get the top 6 cheaply. Its just very imposing the Eng batting line up. And to think its been weakened with Hales out.

 

Our world ranking is sure to go up if we win the series though, I think we can make number 3.

 

Our t20 surely will drop from #1...... although Aus were ranked quite far down, so that might save us a bit.


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  # 1964456 26-Feb-2018 14:29
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TeaLeaf:

 

tdgeek:

 

Links to show Santner was picked as a specialist batsman.

 

 

 

 

Not going to try, probably wasnt even noted, but thats how it was read out in commentary, replaced Nichols I believe.

 

They would NOT be picking Santner for his bowling, there are far better bowlers around. His form of bowling is what every kid is taught, slow finger spin, the fact he is accurate is what makes him economical and his pitchs maps show that. He is definitely in the team to be a batsman as well, initial thoughts were he would be a 30+ average guy, but as you said, first class doesnt always transfer. I personally think hes been a bit lazy with the bat and not putting enough effort into improving his skill. Hes had long enough for it to not be bad luck and last night showed what he can do. Thats exactly what he was picked to do, be our last saviour, but thats the first time in 49 matches.

 

I dont know why you are so hung up on Santner, hes just as at fault as any of our batsmen.

 

I like how cricket NZ are using our smaller grounds for mid week games, bay oval, whangarei, Pukekura Park (my fav) etc. There are some amazingly beautiful cricket grounds in NZ that dont get used even at 1st class level that should. we are lucky to have some of the most picturesque cricket parks in the world.

 

I think we will see Ferguson play on Wednesday in Tauraunga. Id assume they will drop Sodhi. If not they will use him in the South Island Im sure.

 

The current squad is only for the first few games, so we might see some new blood come through, but honestly, it should have happened against WI and Pak. Im 50/50 on Nicholls. I guess we gotta keep him, AVG 35 at about SR80ish. Id liked to see him up the anti a bit.

 

Munro is a better bowler than that, he just hasnt been a bowler for years. His economy isnt so bad at 4.88. His 1st class is great 2.72 avg27, but that would mostly be from when he was a lot quicker. Hes no part time bowler, hes an ex bowler.

 

Given almost all the Eng team bowl, I think we should be able to get more than 3 genuine bowlers and 2 all rounders. Use the talent we have so we can strengthen the batting.

 

Yep we were very lucky to get the win, I said pre game Eng would be good for 330, anything under 300 they would be ropeable and 280 we have a chance. Its those final overs from Southee that probably one it for us, those wide yorkers and pace change up. Hes got it going finally. Even so normally Jos Butler would find the boundary from any delivery, you could see he was not at his best despite his score.

 

Who knows, a bit of confidence and our opening bowlers may lift and do what Aus couldnt and get the top 6 cheaply. Its just very imposing the Eng batting line up. And to think its been weakened with Hales out.

 

Our world ranking is sure to go up if we win the series though, I think we can make number 3.

 

Our t20 surely will drop from #1...... although Aus were ranked quite far down, so that might save us a bit.

 

 

You are quite incorrect, as you know. It should not be hard for you to dig that info out. I watched an interview with him that is quite a few months old. It was all about his bowling. He mentioned for a brief period that he wanted to bring his batting up to a level where he can stand on that.

 

Im not hung up on Santner, you are, read what others here say about your Santner/Sodhi comments. Reverse psychology doesnt work on me I am afraid

 

Those after the noted batsmen are not at fault, I never said they were, the specialised batsmen are 100% at fault. It is they who are tasked with scoring the vast majority of the runs. Kane running down the wicket, thats rubbish. Taylor doing the same

 

We wont with the series we are a level below ENG. Take the best 4 teams, then we can fit in there. T20 were wins against rubbish WI and poor Paki's, now we play real teams.

 

I cant see how you can think we can win this series. Not unless our specialists batsmen use their brains. Every ball is a "will he get out" ball. Thats NZ cricket. AUS, ENG, will he get 1 or a 4. 

 

Patriotism is fine, but it clouds the reality.


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  # 1964800 26-Feb-2018 21:30
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This thread's title should be renamed "TeaLeaf hates Mitchell Santner and wants you to kno0w about it!".

 

 

 

 


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