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  # 1964940 27-Feb-2018 10:37
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tdgeek:

 

You are quite incorrect, as you know. It should not be hard for you to dig that info out. I watched an interview with him that is quite a few months old. It was all about his bowling. He mentioned for a brief period that he wanted to bring his batting up to a level where he can stand on that.

 

 

Well then thats where the problem is, Santner has his head in the clouds if he thinks he got selected based on his bowling soley, he clearly didnt get the memo. It was said time and time again he was expected to be our number one all rounder, which means batting good, not just avg 20ish, thats the role of a tail ender.

 

Im far from hung up about Santner, I see all the places in the team objectively and what will give us the strongest batting line up with enough backup in bowling for Southee, Boult, (whoever the third front line bowler is).

 

That means a few things, improving our batting line up with 1 change, improving Mitchel Santners role with the bat, our lower order improving their batting, which Sodhi is doing, but is Ferguson, is Southee, will excuse Boult and leave him as a slogger.

 

I really enjoyed Santner manning up for the first time in 49 games on the weekend. And Im hoping its the catalyst for him to be the lower order batsman who hangs around and scores runs freely. I dont know how to resolve our middle order other than hoping Latham has found his spot (despite getting lucky) and we inject Phillips as keeper. Which will mean either dropping Nicholls or Williamson, or bowling Munro, which he is plenty capable of doing if given the role, and there is no reason if Willimson stays he cant bowl either, just like Santner, he just bowls what you get taught first as a kid, but unlike Santner he doesnt have the accuracy yet which takes time. But good things take time. That gives us 6 bowlers and if you count Santner as a batsman which he is meant to be, 8 batsman, 2 who can do a bit and 1 slogger. That line up will challenge Eng. The traditional 5 batsman and Santner is not going to win this test series. They have 10 batsmen.


k14

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  # 1964941 27-Feb-2018 10:46
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dejadeadnz:

 

This thread's title should be renamed "TeaLeaf hates Mitchell Santner and wants you to kno0w about it!".

 

 

Absolutely, as a very avid NZ cricket fan I have read a few posts in this thread over the last few weeks and it makes me laugh how ridiculous the discussion has got to. Basically it boils down to some armchair critics thinking they know everything and expecting our team to always win and never make a mistake. They will always find fault in the way we played whether we win or lose.

 

Perfect example was the other night, we had a brilliant victory after a few stand out performances. But the problem cited is that 4 or 5 of the batters failed. Then further criticism of Santner for taking this long to have an innings like that. That is the game. Guys get out (they are human after all), others make runs, bowlers get carted about and then get a five wicket bag the next. That's why the game is so great. We aren't the best team in the world and we punch way above our weight. We can't win everything so when we do maybe have some humility and just be happy?


 
 
 
 


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  # 1964960 27-Feb-2018 11:12
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TeaLeaf:

 

tdgeek:

 

You are quite incorrect, as you know. It should not be hard for you to dig that info out. I watched an interview with him that is quite a few months old. It was all about his bowling. He mentioned for a brief period that he wanted to bring his batting up to a level where he can stand on that.

 

 

Well then thats where the problem is, Santner has his head in the clouds if he thinks he got selected based on his bowling soley, he clearly didnt get the memo. It was said time and time again he was expected to be our number one all rounder, which means batting good, not just avg 20ish, thats the role of a tail ender.

 

Im far from hung up about Santner, I see all the places in the team objectively and what will give us the strongest batting line up with enough backup in bowling for Southee, Boult, (whoever the third front line bowler is).

 

That means a few things, improving our batting line up with 1 change, improving Mitchel Santners role with the bat, our lower order improving their batting, which Sodhi is doing, but is Ferguson, is Southee, will excuse Boult and leave him as a slogger.

 

I really enjoyed Santner manning up for the first time in 49 games on the weekend. And Im hoping its the catalyst for him to be the lower order batsman who hangs around and scores runs freely. I dont know how to resolve our middle order other than hoping Latham has found his spot (despite getting lucky) and we inject Phillips as keeper. Which will mean either dropping Nicholls or Williamson, or bowling Munro, which he is plenty capable of doing if given the role, and there is no reason if Willimson stays he cant bowl either, just like Santner, he just bowls what you get taught first as a kid, but unlike Santner he doesnt have the accuracy yet which takes time. But good things take time. That gives us 6 bowlers and if you count Santner as a batsman which he is meant to be, 8 batsman, 2 who can do a bit and 1 slogger. That line up will challenge Eng. The traditional 5 batsman and Santner is not going to win this test series. They have 10 batsmen.

 

 

What a load of cobblers. Is Sodhi improving his batting, not that I can see. Time and time again you say Santner has no variation, thats rubbish, you clearly dont believe the commentators, let alone your eyes, which are clearly clouded. How many times have you heard commentators say Santner was brilliant?

 

You seem to feel that every batsmen needs to be able to bat well. That's dreaming. In time that will happen, maybe 10 years, as kids understand that an allrounder is minimum spec

 

Before you worry about Santners batting, worry about those that bat ahead of him, they are what are losing us games. They lost the last game for us, by a cou ntry mile, we were thrashed. Except, three rare events happened to fall into that one game, that was a fluke.

 

If you believe Santner was selected for his batting, thats rubbish. he was selected for his spin bowling. That he can swing a bat is a bonus, for the future

 

 


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  # 1964962 27-Feb-2018 11:19
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k14:

 

dejadeadnz:

 

This thread's title should be renamed "TeaLeaf hates Mitchell Santner and wants you to kno0w about it!".

 

 

Absolutely, as a very avid NZ cricket fan I have read a few posts in this thread over the last few weeks and it makes me laugh how ridiculous the discussion has got to. Basically it boils down to some armchair critics thinking they know everything and expecting our team to always win and never make a mistake. They will always find fault in the way we played whether we win or lose.

 

Perfect example was the other night, we had a brilliant victory after a few stand out performances. But the problem cited is that 4 or 5 of the batters failed. Then further criticism of Santner for taking this long to have an innings like that. That is the game. Guys get out (they are human after all), others make runs, bowlers get carted about and then get a five wicket bag the next. That's why the game is so great. We aren't the best team in the world and we punch way above our weight. We can't win everything so when we do maybe have some humility and just be happy?

 

 

I agree, the first bold is you down to a tee

 

Rest of the drive... I mean post. It was not a brilliant victory. Thats so obvious, and explained in detail why. A lucky fluke avoided a stunning loss, and to a team that you said played not very well. 5 batters failed,. not 4 or 5. They scored 27 in total. If they each scored 27 its a meh performance by each, but its a contribution.

 

Unlike you, I appreciate sport. Good sport. If my player, team, driver, rider loses thats fine. If they lose but it was a great event, thats also fine. If we get lucky thats also fine. But to hear this crud about how greta we are, how one armchair viewer knows more than anyone here and anyone in the team and anyone in the team management is so silly, let alone the hugely experienced commentators. Sodhi bowls  abad one, excuse, its ok, Santner does the same, thats 4 posts lined up already here. You do need to come back to earth


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  # 1964996 27-Feb-2018 11:37
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k14:

 

dejadeadnz:

 

This thread's title should be renamed "TeaLeaf hates Mitchell Santner and wants you to kno0w about it!".

 

 

Absolutely

 

 

On behalf of our resident lawyer (the quoted post), I think we rest your honour, no further questions.


k14

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  # 1964997 27-Feb-2018 11:39
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tdgeek:

 

I agree, the first bold is you down to a tee

 

Rest of the drive... I mean post. It was not a brilliant victory. Thats so obvious, and explained in detail why. A lucky fluke avoided a stunning loss, and to a team that you said played not very well. 5 batters failed,. not 4 or 5. They scored 27 in total. If they each scored 27 its a meh performance by each, but its a contribution.

 

Unlike you, I appreciate sport. Good sport. If my player, team, driver, rider loses thats fine. If they lose but it was a great event, thats also fine. If we get lucky thats also fine. But to hear this crud about how greta we are, how one armchair viewer knows more than anyone here and anyone in the team and anyone in the team management is so silly, let alone the hugely experienced commentators. Sodhi bowls  abad one, excuse, its ok, Santner does the same, thats 4 posts lined up already here. You do need to come back to earth

 

 

So let me get this straight? You write basically every second post in a 14+ page thread and I'm the armchair critic who doesn't appreciate good sport? Yeah, ok. No wonder virtually no one else is posting anything in this thread apart from you and the other guy. Anyone with a slightly different opinion is on a different planet.

 

How was it not a brilliant victory? Backs to the wall, 30/3 or so, massive partnership, then score 40 odd off the last 5 overs against a pretty quality bowling lineup. That is awesome in my books.


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  # 1965002 27-Feb-2018 11:45
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k14:

 

dejadeadnz:

 

This thread's title should be renamed "TeaLeaf hates Mitchell Santner and wants you to kno0w about it!".

 

 

Absolutely, as a very avid NZ cricket fan I have read a few posts in this thread over the last few weeks and it makes me laugh how ridiculous the discussion has got to. Basically it boils down to some armchair critics thinking they know everything and expecting our team to always win and never make a mistake. They will always find fault in the way we played whether we win or lose.

 

Perfect example was the other night, we had a brilliant victory after a few stand out performances. But the problem cited is that 4 or 5 of the batters failed. Then further criticism of Santner for taking this long to have an innings like that. That is the game. Guys get out (they are human after all), others make runs, bowlers get carted about and then get a five wicket bag the next. That's why the game is so great. We aren't the best team in the world and we punch way above our weight. We can't win everything so when we do maybe have some humility and just be happy?

 

 

Apologies, I thought your post was Tealeaf's

 

I dont think anyone here has an issue with losing, or why. Cricket is a delicate game. An ODI lasts 300 balls, the team can be out in 10 of them, plus all the variations when a start is good, or bad, or good luck or bad luck. The issue here in this thread is its about being so awesome, and when we fail, the daggers come out by the OP, mainly about one player and Larsen. The same old comments about him, the same praise for his co spin bowler. The commentary to date is that the OP knows more than anyone including the team, the management and the commentators. Extremely biased, extremely parochial, and the sum of that is a silly silly thread. As compared to an objective discussion over the vagaries of the Black Caps. There has been a number of pints where him and I agree, but overall its back to the same biased comments


 
 
 
 


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  # 1965003 27-Feb-2018 11:49
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I'm not sure @k14, but I think @tdgeek may have quoted the wrong post there (maybe not).

 

Anyway. I agree with yours. We are a small cricket nation, we punch above our weight. We won't win every game, and when we do pull one back from the fire (as on Sunday) we should celebrate and enjoy it.


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  # 1965004 27-Feb-2018 11:50
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k14:

 

tdgeek:

 

I agree, the first bold is you down to a tee

 

Rest of the drive... I mean post. It was not a brilliant victory. Thats so obvious, and explained in detail why. A lucky fluke avoided a stunning loss, and to a team that you said played not very well. 5 batters failed,. not 4 or 5. They scored 27 in total. If they each scored 27 its a meh performance by each, but its a contribution.

 

Unlike you, I appreciate sport. Good sport. If my player, team, driver, rider loses thats fine. If they lose but it was a great event, thats also fine. If we get lucky thats also fine. But to hear this crud about how greta we are, how one armchair viewer knows more than anyone here and anyone in the team and anyone in the team management is so silly, let alone the hugely experienced commentators. Sodhi bowls  abad one, excuse, its ok, Santner does the same, thats 4 posts lined up already here. You do need to come back to earth

 

 

So let me get this straight? You write basically every second post in a 14+ page thread and I'm the armchair critic who doesn't appreciate good sport? Yeah, ok. No wonder virtually no one else is posting anything in this thread apart from you and the other guy. Anyone with a slightly different opinion is on a different planet.

 

How was it not a brilliant victory? Backs to the wall, 30/3 or so, massive partnership, then score 40 odd off the last 5 overs against a pretty quality bowling lineup. That is awesome in my books.

 

 

The others left, as did I. Silly me to come back for more drivel

 

Yes it was a good win, but it was luck, we dodged a bullet. We failed as the key players all failed, but we got out of it, by a rare effort by three players that happened in the same game. If we played to our potential often, and we had a lucky night, I would be more forgiving, but when I read all this here, its a bit of a joke. Say we win tomorrow, and Santner gets 15, the OP will be in boots and all, thats thing thing here. If Sodhi got 34, wow, expect a few more pages


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  # 1965006 27-Feb-2018 11:51
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trig42:

 

I'm not sure @k14, but I think @tdgeek may have quoted the wrong post there (maybe not).

 

Anyway. I agree with yours. We are a small cricket nation, we punch above our weight. We won't win every game, and when we do pull one back from the fire (as on Sunday) we should celebrate and enjoy it.

 

 

Yep, my bad. I saw the comments and mad a correct but wrong assumption


k14

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  # 1965007 27-Feb-2018 11:53
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trig42:

 

I'm not sure @k14, but I think @tdgeek may have quoted the wrong post there (maybe not).

 

Anyway. I agree with yours. We are a small cricket nation, we punch above our weight. We won't win every game, and when we do pull one back from the fire (as on Sunday) we should celebrate and enjoy it.

 

 

Yeah I figured that out. I rest my case your honour :)

 

 

 

P.S. I actually have it first hand from Sodhi about his batting (talked to him briefly at a 4 dayer when he was playing for ND). Although just because he has worked on it doesn't mean he will be going out scoring hundreds, but I think there has certainly been an improvement over the last few seasons.


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  # 1965019 27-Feb-2018 12:07
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k14:

 

trig42:

 

I'm not sure @k14, but I think @tdgeek may have quoted the wrong post there (maybe not).

 

Anyway. I agree with yours. We are a small cricket nation, we punch above our weight. We won't win every game, and when we do pull one back from the fire (as on Sunday) we should celebrate and enjoy it.

 

 

Yeah I figured that out. I rest my case your honour :)

 

 

 

P.S. I actually have it first hand from Sodhi about his batting (talked to him briefly at a 4 dayer when he was playing for ND). Although just because he has worked on it doesn't mean he will be going out scoring hundreds, but I think there has certainly been an improvement over the last few seasons.

 

 

His average is not bad, low 20's I think. And he can hit 6's, so it would be a nice bonus if he can improve gradually. Santner the same. An interview he had months ago on TV was that his hope is to elevate his batting so he becomes a genuine all rounder. His technique makes me wince! Cramping his upper body then swiping at it. But MacMillan is the batting coach, so plenty of lower end ability to work with, including Southee and Boult.




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  # 1965727 28-Feb-2018 11:59
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Stop worrying about Santner, I dont have an issue with him if he keeps performing with the bat. I had an issue with Larsen picking Latham and Santner when they were failing. Thats changed since Larsen made some changes and hopefully by Santners last at bat.

 

Yes Sodhi is working on his batting big time, its been mentioned by the commentators and Craigh numerous times. Sodhi asked how do I asked how do I make the squad consistently and thats what they have asked of him, something Southee should be doing along with Santner. If we could get both Santner, Southee and Sodhi averaging 30 then we are getting closer to the Eng team.

 

Looks a bit patchy the rain map tonight. it says fine spells with the chance of an evening shower, but if you look at the scattered rain its right over Tauraunga. Mostly 0.5mm stuff but some of the green zone. Perhaps a 40 over per side match. Which would suit us if we were chasing.


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  # 1965772 28-Feb-2018 12:23
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TeaLeaf:

 

Stop worrying about Santner, I dont have an issue with him if he keeps performing with the bat. I had an issue with Larsen picking Latham and Santner when they were failing. Thats changed since Larsen made some changes and hopefully by Santners last at bat.

 

Yes Sodhi is working on his batting big time, its been mentioned by the commentators and Craigh numerous times. Sodhi asked how do I asked how do I make the squad consistently and thats what they have asked of him, something Southee should be doing along with Santner. If we could get both Santner, Southee and Sodhi averaging 30 then we are getting closer to the Eng team.

 

Looks a bit patchy the rain map tonight. it says fine spells with the chance of an evening shower, but if you look at the scattered rain its right over Tauraunga. Mostly 0.5mm stuff but some of the green zone. Perhaps a 40 over per side match. Which would suit us if we were chasing.

 

 

You need to stop making things up again, I'm not worried about Santner, your thread title covers that.

 

 




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  # 1965845 28-Feb-2018 13:27
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tdgeek:

 

You need to stop making things up again, I'm not worried about Santner, your thread title covers that.

 

 

Thats old news, Latham was dropped etc, I had more concerns then about our middle order THEN than I do now. As for Santner, he just simply wasnt delivering in the batting, which whether you like it or not, he is in the team for as an all rounder. Thats why they basically said to Sodhi to get consistent game time and push for Santners position he has to improve his batting. His fielding is better, something Im sure Santner is aware he needs to improve.

 

So lets make the cricket chat not about Santner for a while. Unless he gets tonked for 100 and gets a golden duck and drops 4 catches haha.

 

Williamson as of last night was in doubt for today, Im not sure if hes pulled through, but Chapman was named to replace him. thought it could have been a good chance for Phillips to get a game, but if they have faith in Chapman at ODI level so be it.


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