Great Captaincy from Southee to demand one more from Boult. Wicket. Now Santner if he tidies up and gets dot balls fergusson wilkl come on after boult at 150kph.

TeaLeaf:

 

Handle9:

 

Endlessly repeating a stupid statement doesn't make it true. I really think this thread should be locked as it has long ago descended into farce. It really is Trump like.

 

 

The commentary said it again today, its been said all summer, and when you have Bowler/BATSMAN next to your name in a game it is because thats what you are in the team for. So please dont make ironic statements.

 

NZ has needed depth in that position since Mccullum moved to opening from 7, it never really got properly filled, someone who can see a game home, which Santner has twice now, in a row.

 

I am more 50/50 about Nicholls now. I feel its time to give Phillips a genuine shot and let Latham focus just on batting, he didnt do great today which is his at home average but he might get 40 next time as he might feel comfortable in the position and I like him and Taylor together. Munro needs to just turn it down a notch, some balls just arent there to be hit, much like Guptill plays himself in now and then turns it up.

 

He doesn't and didn't make ironic statements. I have never heard that from any commentary, or anyone for that matter. Never. Why in an interview a few months ago would he talk about his bowling. Then eventually he started talking about getting his batting to a level where he can stand on that. He is a bowler who can bat.

Yes, Santner has seen the game home, twice. In fact he has batted, again 5 noted batsmen failed.

I see a commentators stated that NZ batted as if they dd nt want to go out. Similar to me saying they play not to lose. Asa mentioned today, we have the talent but we cannot handle pressure. There we have bad decisions, and then we lode wickets. Oz id the opposite. They never lie down. I see Lockie got hit for a 6, so he laughs.

You did promote 8 an over from ball 1. I see you gave that up. Good call " Munro needs to just turn it down a notch, some balls just arent there to be hit, much like Guptill plays himself in now and then turns it up."

Latham needs to go. 

TeaLeaf:

 

 

 

We just dont have a reliable middle order and our bottom order is being relied upon to do half to 2/3 the work, it was DGH earlier in the season.

 

 

 

Insert top order, they are as much to blame. 

tdgeek:

 

You did promote 8 an over from ball 1. I see you gave that up. Good call " Munro needs to just turn it down a notch, some balls just arent there to be hit, much like Guptill plays himself in now and then turns it up."

 

No, Im still keen on that, but we need some fresh batsmen who can handle it. Thats generally how England bat their first 10 overs and its very effective, we just dont have the depth in batting obviously at this point in time..

Can we stop talking about Santner, I made my point, its a point commonly shared, so a few on here dont, thats there right to an opinion. Hes selected as an all rounder bowler/batsman, who had high expectations on bringing home the tail. Up until recently he hasnt had the confidence to do so, but I feel much better about his position now he believes in himself with the bat.

I thought fergusson bowled well, interesting to hear swings it frequently when he bowls at 80%. I say drop to 140Kph if you can swing it, thats where Boult was at, at his best 2-3 years ago. It makes sense extreme pace is hard to swing from a physics perspective. Most fast swingers seem to be around 140kph. Then they through in the straight yorker at 150kph. Thats all he really needs to be a great bowler.

Nicholls is getting more suspect. I think its time some of these good 1st class players like Phillips were given a lengthy go.

Latham just had an offy, I dont know if its the at home thing or just a one off, will give him benefit of the doubt.

Is suggest injecting Phillips but we really need somebody who can Bat and bowl. And if we had Phillips in the team its basically Auckland Aces vs Eng + Ross Taylor. haha.

Why did you change the Santner bashing title?

And why the "Can we stop talking about Santner" All I said was...

Yes, Santner has seen the game home, twice.

I thought this was a cricket thread I missed so I started reading it, what a hoot!

TeaLeaf:

 

tdgeek:

 

You did promote 8 an over from ball 1. I see you gave that up. Good call " Munro needs to just turn it down a notch, some balls just arent there to be hit, much like Guptill plays himself in now and then turns it up."

 

 

No, Im still keen on that, but we need some fresh batsmen who can handle it. Thats generally how England bat their first 10 overs and its very effective, we just dont have the depth in batting obviously at this point in time..

 

Can we stop talking about Santner, I made my point, its a point commonly shared, so a few on here dont, thats there right to an opinion. Hes selected as an all rounder bowler/batsman, who had high expectations on bringing home the tail. Up until recently he hasnt had the confidence to do so, but I feel much better about his position now he believes in himself with the bat.

 

I thought fergusson bowled well, interesting to hear swings it frequently when he bowls at 80%. I say drop to 140Kph if you can swing it, thats where Boult was at, at his best 2-3 years ago. It makes sense extreme pace is hard to swing from a physics perspective. Most fast swingers seem to be around 140kph. Then they through in the straight yorker at 150kph. Thats all he really needs to be a great bowler.

 

Nicholls is getting more suspect. I think its time some of these good 1st class players like Phillips were given a lengthy go.

 

Latham just had an offy, I dont know if its the at home thing or just a one off, will give him benefit of the doubt.

 

Is suggest injecting Phillips but we really need somebody who can Bat and bowl. And if we had Phillips in the team its basically Auckland Aces vs Eng + Ross Taylor. haha.

 

8 an over is silly in ODI. T20 doesnt go over that by much most of the time

Santners point that only you make is not commonly shared, its incorrect as I have instructed you on, including and interview with the man himself. A few on here? All bar 1 actually. You feel much better now that he has had two good knocks? As someone here pointed out, you focus on the last match, the last over, the last ball. You need to look at the big picture and get past I hate this guy and I love this guy.  IIRC and I might be wrong, you seemed to not be up on Latham? Now he just had an offy? Is that because he got 79 recently so he is now favoured? 

I dont hate any player.

Do you honestly believe Santner is good enough to be in the team as a number 11 bowler? Thats taking the mickey.

Hes clearly in the team for his batting as well as his bowling, his bowling is very 1 dimensional but effective for economy, and thats the part he plays. His batting role which has been talked about before is to bring home the team, as his position of 7-8 dictates in any traditional ODI team.

8rpo is the modern way of opening which is not t20, its how openers bat the 1st 10 overs, good teams like Eng have players in depth to number 10 who are as good as our number 5 who can risk losing 4 wickets in the first 15 overs. If it pays off and they get off to a flyer, generally they score over 300, which has been their par score/run rate this summer 6rpo+. NZ struggle to get 6rpo. Aus have a similar tradtional team to ours, but they have better middle order batsmen and openers and have brilliant all rounders.

The thread title was changed as to not focus on Santner. He is not going to get dropped now he is batting well if we wastn dropped when he was just being a Ewen Chatfield. There is nothing wrong with having a plugger, but in the modern game they need to be able to score fast at the end along with the tail, he can do that, its clear it was his self belief. Can Southee improve his batting, because we need a long batting line up to be a modern team. And hes no longer our main issue (which is our middle order)

Id like to see Fergusson drop his pace and concentrate on movement of the ball. If Milne gets and stays fit thats two quick options. Wagner can swing it and I dont see why he cant be another ODI option.

Latham I said Im unsure about whether the 20 was just an offy or if its his terrible at home ability. He clearly prefers spin which is unusual as most batsmen like using the pace of a ball. He did get dropped twice in his 70 odd, so yeah it does look suspect.

Id give him this series for us to know for sure whether hes improved at home or not.

Nicholls is a worry too. DGH isnt the all rounder to be up the line, he should always be 7 and Santner 8. It leaves one batsman imo. We need 6 pure batsmen, 2 all rounders, 3 if we can get southee up, sodhi can bat if he plays, but number 9 needs to be avg 20 at least. If Eng avg 30 at 10 and score 5 1st class centures at #1 in Ashid, I think we can do a bit better than 22 in our at 6 or 7. So another batsman, keep working on our tails batting along with our middle order issues. Thats all we can do. you have to TRY to get better.

Possibly put Phillips in at keeper at 6 and move the DGH back to 7. Leave Latham to think about his batting.

With what we got we are doing pretty good to hang around the top 4 teams imo.

TeaLeaf:

 

I dont hate any player.

 

Do you honestly believe Santner is good enough to be in the team as a number 11 bowler? Thats taking the mickey.

 

Hes clearly in the team for his batting as well as his bowling, his bowling is very 1 dimensional but effective for economy, and thats the part he plays. His batting role which has been talked about before is to bring home the team, as his position of 7-8 dictates in any traditional ODI team.

 

8rpo is the modern way of opening which is not t20, its how openers bat the 1st 10 overs, good teams like Eng have players in depth to number 10 who are as good as our number 5 who can risk losing 4 wickets in the first 15 overs. If it pays off and they get off to a flyer, generally they score over 300, which has been their par score/run rate this summer 6rpo+. NZ struggle to get 6rpo. Aus have a similar tradtional team to ours, but they have better middle order batsmen and openers and have brilliant all rounders.

 

The thread title was changed as to not focus on Santner. He is not going to get dropped now he is batting well if we wastn dropped when he was just being a Ewen Chatfield. There is nothing wrong with having a plugger, but in the modern game they need to be able to score fast at the end along with the tail, he can do that, its clear it was his self belief. Can Southee improve his batting, because we need a long batting line up to be a modern team. And hes no longer our main issue (which is our middle order)

 

Id like to see Fergusson drop his pace and concentrate on movement of the ball. If Milne gets and stays fit thats two quick options. Wagner can swing it and I dont see why he cant be another ODI option.

 

Latham I said Im unsure about whether the 20 was just an offy or if its his terrible at home ability. He clearly prefers spin which is unusual as most batsmen like using the pace of a ball. He did get dropped twice in his 70 odd, so yeah it does look suspect.

 

Id give him this series for us to know for sure whether hes improved at home or not.

 

Nicholls is a worry too. DGH isnt the all rounder to be up the line, he should always be 7 and Santner 8. It leaves one batsman imo. We need 6 pure batsmen, 2 all rounders, 3 if we can get southee up, sodhi can bat if he plays, but number 9 needs to be avg 20 at least. If Eng avg 30 at 10 and score 5 1st class centures at #1 in Ashid, I think we can do a bit better than 22 in our at 6 or 7. So another batsman, keep working on our tails batting along with our middle order issues. Thats all we can do. you have to TRY to get better.

 

Possibly put Phillips in at keeper at 6 and move the DGH back to 7. Leave Latham to think about his batting.

 

With what we got we are doing pretty good to hang around the top 4 teams imo.

 

Chuckle, I wont respond to your usual comments, but re reading this thread was a lot of fun

Our team has a lot of batting depth, we bat down to Boult. If Boult got 10 from 4 no one is surprised, if he got 1 from 4 the world will end, thats a surprise. So batting strength is not the issue. What is between the ears is the issue. We are meek, play not to lose, not play to win, I am sure many are worried about their place that doesnt help. If we have little pressure we can play our game, otherwise we go onto our shell. Other teams play to their ability, the results will look after themselves, we dont do that, we need cotton wool, then we shine

If you want 8 an over for 15 overs you dont want DeG at 7

Latham got 79 so he's in the team till we get tired of his scores again. This is a bit like the Warriors

No, we are not doing good, we got thrashed in the first ODI, but web had 3 players who scored more than expected who saved the day. Last game we were thrashed, we didnt get a saving century, Santner did his part, Latham didnt, so like the first game we were way behind and all we has was Guppy, Santner and DeG who got 30 I think. Didnt reach the 39th over

The batting mindset has to change, between the ears. Hang around the top 4 teams?

Kane in Taylor out, thats a negative based on current form. Chapman plays again. He should play every match, he has the makings, and a top fielder. 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Our team has a lot of batting depth, we bat down to Boult.

 

For NZ yes, but in comparison to Eng, no chance. Rashid #10 averages 33 in COUNTY cricket, a lot harder than NZ provincial 1st class. Hes got 10 first class centuries. He is probably as good as our number 5/6. We have to play with what we have but we have to have our bowlers improve their batting. All rounders like Santner and DGH no question have to be real batsmen and Id throw Southee in there. To be fair CDGH does have a good average but hes out of sorts right now, whilst on the flip side Santner has found some form. Thats cricket. But we need to bat to at least 9. Most good teams do now.

Well done by Kane choosing to bowl. We just cant set totals. I know thats not why he selected to bowl, but it is our best bet.

Haha thank you Ian Smith, Re Sodhi, he should be playing every game, just play him every game and let him become a world class spinner he can be. Spot on. Imagine if Shane Warne had only got a game every now and then? You just cant do that with wrist spinners.

Good to see Santners AVG had lifted from 21 to 26, 4 more and he can be considered a genuine all rounder. Im hoping so, we need him at his best with the bat.

Wow we look weak without Taylor. Definitely need a big one from one or two of the top 3

Haha that $1.60 for NZ to win the series didnt last long, back to $2.35, probably $5 after today :-)

When was the last time Tim Southee swung the ball, this is a swingers delight.

TeaLeaf:

tdgeek:

 

Our team has a lot of batting depth, we bat down to Boult.

For NZ yes, but in comparison to Eng, no chance. Rashid #10 averages 33 in COUNTY cricket, a lot harder than NZ provincial 1st class. Hes got 10 first class centuries. He is probably as good as our number 5/6. We have to play with what we have but we have to have our bowlers improve their batting. All rounders like Santner and DGH no question have to be real batsmen and Id throw Southee in there. To be fair CDGH does have a good average but hes out of sorts right now, whilst on the flip side Santner has found some form. Thats cricket. But we need to bat to at least 9. Most good teams do now.

Well done by Kane choosing to bowl. We just cant set totals. I know thats not why he selected to bowl, but it is our best bet.

Is this McCullum or Williamson captaining?

When was the last time the blackcaps had 3 slips in an ODI?

I like it. We dont have our A team so fight fire with fire.

tdgeek: Where did I compare to Eng?

We gave a lot of batting depth but we lack the mettle to use it
Defined as choking

No Im saying we have to our best with what we have and try to get a team like Eng, clearly we dont have the natural talent but we do need to try and bat. If we aim to be the best and we end up staying in the top 4 im happy with that given our talent pool. You look at even Aus where cricket is huge, then Eng, then India, these countries have HUGE amounts of natural talent. I think we do pretty well considering the talent pool, which comes from just trying to get as good as we can at every position. We are battlers not natural cricketers.

Geeze this is one UGLY pitch, its beyond sub continent bad, its like half the surface comes at you with the ball lol.

beautiful ball from Boulta regardless. i think 240 is a challenge on this pitch.

Root found a way to use Santners accuracy against him, lovely lap then Santner loses it with the next ball and bowls what would have been a wide but 2 fours in a row. This is my concern, nobody has taken to Santner yet and Im interested to see how he handles the pressure when it does happen. I did expect Roy or Bairstow to have stepped down the pitch to him by now so was surprised to see it come from root. Thats the price of accuracy and predictability. Hopefully he can handle the jandle and find a way to vary his length without being forced into bowling pies.

edit: well that wont be a problem, gets rid of Root  hehe. That was looking ominous. You can tell that pitch is a struggle. Definitely think 240 will be competitive.