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  Reply # 1967670 3-Mar-2018 22:19
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Also have to keep in mind we are playing the team that just averaged over 6rpo per match in a 4-1 ODI series win against Aus easily chasing down scores 300+.

 

Although conversely Eng did lose to Pak in the champions trophy, but so did India. Its when Roy, Bairstow and Stokes start firing we are in real trouble.

 

Is there a more fickle sport... lol

 

We just need Nichols and Colin to stand up on Wednesday when we are full strength. I assume Fergusson will replace Sodhi. Southee certainly is closing well. that wide yorker is flavour of the month.


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  Reply # 1967685 3-Mar-2018 23:16
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TeaLeaf: that wide yorker is flavour of the month. 

 

That wide yorker can be completely left alone 50% of the time at a bare minimum. That 50% will result in a wide (free run, extra delivery), the rest of the time it doesn't threaten the wicket and brings with it the risk of a thick edge or sky shot resulting in being caught out. But when a team places itself in the position NZ did tonight then yeah, they're gonna have to play at those deliveries.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1967736 4-Mar-2018 08:36
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TeaLeaf:

 

What a great game.

 

Well done Eng.

 

Santner delivers again, SERIOUSLY bad luck, the game looked like it was ours again until that moment.

 

Well done Kane, hard to criticise an effort like that.

 

The bowlers Boult, Sodhi and Southee closing out did really well to restrict the total. Unfortunately our middle order just isnt up to scratch, Taylor back Wednesday. Nicholls over due, Latham could be replaced with Phillips for keeper but I think they will stick with him regardless. At least Taylor makes it feel a bit stronger and knowing Santner is consistently performing at the back end is very encouraging, just need Colin to get back to form.

 

 

 

 

Cant blame the middle order, the top order is where ist starts. When they continue to fail you add pressure to the middle to play there game plus catchup. These three games have seen 3 players put in great efforts, thats all. 5 of the top 7 got 14. The game we won it was 27 and we lucked in. When we didnt we were gone in the 38th over. Its an 11 player team we cant ask 3 to provide most of the runs


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  Reply # 1967737 4-Mar-2018 08:42
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TeaLeaf:

 

Also have to keep in mind we are playing the team that just averaged over 6rpo per match in a 4-1 ODI series win against Aus easily chasing down scores 300+.

 

Although conversely Eng did lose to Pak in the champions trophy, but so did India. Its when Roy, Bairstow and Stokes start firing we are in real trouble.

 

Is there a more fickle sport... lol

 

We just need Nichols and Colin to stand up on Wednesday when we are full strength. I assume Fergusson will replace Sodhi. Southee certainly is closing well. that wide yorker is flavour of the month.

 

 

It is a very fickle sport, what other sport is there where you can end an innings after 10 of 300 balls, or 3% of the innings length? So, you can win huge or lose huge, but the key is being stable and consistent. We cant expect every player to bat to their average, but as its a long term average its reasonable that the team bats to that consistently. A player may fail, another will bat above, its reasonable that over an innings it averages out. 

 

In this game ENG batted when the pitch was tough, we batted when it became nit so tough, so the last ball loss was quite a bit wider. All of them contributed in tough conditions, that is our problem. Imagine if we had batted first?


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  Reply # 1967738 4-Mar-2018 08:49
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TeaLeaf:

 

Dratsab:

 

Agree but unfortunately there isn't the depth for this. Some of the top order are just shameful.

 

 

Yeah some decisions were a bit dubious. We do have a few players better than chapman, Im not sure why hes getting picked ahead of Phillips, maybe because Latham is keeper, but maybe not being keeper might give him less to think about.

 

But yes, really dissapointing from some players that havent contributed for this whole series.

 

But positives to be had. Got to try to be positive hehe.

 

 

Not sure what they are. Santner for one. Im not know sure playing around with the batters will add much. It seems to be the mentality of most of the team. They can all bat, but the higher up the order you go, the worse it gets. Are they pressuring themselves to get a start?  Or to be a permanent member? Are they given too much expectation by the team management? Do the management give the impression that if you fail, bugger, we dont mind, you will average out over time? Something is wrong mentally. On the way the pitch played difficult for ENG they all struggled, but that plugged away courageously. All got a start and all got a low score in the conditions but they all contributed. Dour and sensible. Strong mentally.


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  Reply # 1967746 4-Mar-2018 09:04
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The Blackcaps may still be under the 'McCullum Effect' where swashbuckling starts were the expected norm. Baz is a special player and shouldn't be used as a template for how to play limited over cricket. I also believe that T20 cricket is the worst way to prepare for longer forms of the game. And yes England made the same transition, but have done it better. Possibly because of their time in Oz first.
Williamson proved you have to set about your craft in a measured fashion when the pitch favours the bowlers. That wasn't the case previously when his measured, test cricket style approach, squandered 28 balls for only 8 runs on a batsman friendly pitch. But these guys are professionals and should be able to cut their cloth to suit.




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  Reply # 1967749 4-Mar-2018 09:13
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Dingbatt: The Blackcaps may still be under the 'McCullum Effect' where swashbuckling starts were the expected norm. Baz is a special player and shouldn't be used as a template for how to play limited over cricket. I also believe that T20 cricket is the worst way to prepare for longer forms of the game. And yes England made the same transition, but have done it better. Possibly because of their time in Oz first.
Williamson proved you have to set about your craft in a measured fashion when the pitch favours the bowlers. That wasn't the case previously when his measured, test cricket style approach, squandered 28 balls for only 8 runs on a batsman friendly pitch. But these guys are professionals and should be able to cut their cloth to suit.

 

Good point. ENG have started each match slow and steady. Im thinking, wow, lets get into this, but they knew more than me. Last night it was tough for them, but they favoured a low RR and less wickets gone. There will be tracks where its best to go all guns blazing, but yes, you're right, you have to cut the cloth differently on any given day. They are doing that. The scores by each ENG player last night is a glaring example of extracting the best out of what they had to deal with 


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  Reply # 1967763 4-Mar-2018 09:41
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Dingbatt: And yes England made the same transition, but have done it better. Possibly because of their time in Oz first.

 

I would argue this is because they brought over different guys to play 20/20 vs One dayers, they have real depth and its something we just cant compete in (depth I mean).

People that should be concerned for their positions right

 

1) Nicols

 

2) Chapman

 

3) C de Grandhomme

 

In that order!  The issue is who do you replace them with?  Chapman would be Taylor, but Nicols, I am not so sure.




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  Reply # 1967782 4-Mar-2018 10:17
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Dratsab:

 

TeaLeaf: that wide yorker is flavour of the month. 

 

That wide yorker can be completely left alone 50% of the time at a bare minimum. That 50% will result in a wide (free run, extra delivery),

 

 

Yeah if its not done well. but southee and woakes and andrew tye have been extremely accurate with it closing innings this season, within the wide lines and on the crease. boult also uses it and throws in one on the wickets to keep the guessing. but its very hard to hit a ball from the end of your bat on the ground for more than a single at best.

 

i agree if it was bowled badly it could be left alone. the ones last night to williamson were really wide because he was following kane. what kane could have done was stepped in then stepped back which would have put doubt in the bowlers mind. he probably didnt handle the last 2 overs well that, but like i said last night its hard to fault him, he would have been exhausted and the only one outside Munro to do anything with the bat. but that last ball summed up how effective yorkers are. the problem is you need bowlers who are ultra accurate as it only needs to be 6 inches too long and its a full toss or 6 inches too short and a half volley. due to t20 players are just getting better and better at it and its used in the final overs in ODIs now by most of the top teams.




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  Reply # 1967801 4-Mar-2018 10:42
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itxtme:

People that should be concerned for their positions right

 

1) Nicols

 

2) Chapman

 

3) C de Grandhomme

 

 

Cant argue with that. Chapman will get replaced by Taylor but I hope they dont replace Nicholls with Chapman. 2/3 of the Blackcaps are Auckland Aces, they are picking chapman because of his Ford Trophy performances, averaged 80 from 8 matcges. Of all the Auckland Aces showing promise its the young opener Glenn Phillips. There is also batting talent elsewhere in the country. Chapman just tries too hard, maybe thats the problem for him, but Phillips is the Aces opener and at 21 is already showing promise. Whether mid series is a good time to blood him Im not sure. But it would take the pressure off Latham with the gloves as hes clearly struggling, although Phillips is also a pretty handy bowler. And hes got a similar average already to what Nicholls has in list A. Speaking of Ford Trophy George Worker is another player in form.

 

3) C de Grandhomme just hasnt performed since his fantastic matches earlier in the year where he was doing what Santner is now and saving games for NZ. Perhaps his form is more a mental thing.

 

Eng just have a very talented team, have real batsman to #10, 2 good spinners and some handy pace bowlers. They destroyed Aus. It looks a very different team to the fast paced pitches over there.

 

Perhaps we just have 3 of the middle order struggling for form at the same time, along with Williamson earlier in the year. It happens.

 

Roy, Bairstow, Stokes (they had hales in Aus) are not giving Eng the 100/1 off 10 over type starts they were getting in Aus. So they are struggling too.


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  Reply # 1967824 4-Mar-2018 11:07
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TeaLeaf:

 

itxtme:

People that should be concerned for their positions right

 

1) Nicols

 

2) Chapman

 

3) C de Grandhomme

 

 

Cant argue with that. Chapman will get replaced by Taylor but I hope they dont replace Nicholls with Chapman. 2/3 of the Blackcaps are Auckland Aces, they are picking chapman because of his Ford Trophy performances, averaged 80 from 8 matcges. Of all the Auckland Aces showing promise its the young opener Glenn Phillips. There is also batting talent elsewhere in the country. Chapman just tries too hard, maybe thats the problem for him, but Phillips is the Aces opener and at 21 is already showing promise. Whether mid series is a good time to blood him Im not sure. But it would take the pressure off Latham with the gloves as hes clearly struggling, although Phillips is also a pretty handy bowler. And hes got a similar average already to what Nicholls has in list A. Speaking of Ford Trophy George Worker is another player in form.

 

3) C de Grandhomme just hasnt performed since his fantastic matches earlier in the year where he was doing what Santner is now and saving games for NZ. Perhaps his form is more a mental thing.

 

Eng just have a very talented team, have real batsman to #10, 2 good spinners and some handy pace bowlers. They destroyed Aus. It looks a very different team to the fast paced pitches over there.

 

Perhaps we just have 3 of the middle order struggling for form at the same time, along with Williamson earlier in the year. It happens.

 

Roy, Bairstow, Stokes (they had hales in Aus) are not giving Eng the 100/1 off 10 over type starts they were getting in Aus. So they are struggling too.

 

 

I'd like Chapman to stay but bat down the order. he is worth persevering with. Drop Latham and add Philips

 

No one saves games, they just happen to be batting when the game ends. Openers doing their role will save games as will it be if most of the team contributed. You cant expect everyone to bat great, some will fall short, others will exceed their average, but when we consistently rely on 3 batters while the rest falter, tats no hope.

 

Its not the middle order, its the top and middle order, and when the top fails the middle has to bat above themselves, thats what causes them to falter.

 

Mental pressure is what they need to work on. DeG needs to bat like Munro, there is no need to go big every ball. Pick and choose. Munro is probably creating his own pressure, everyone expects a big score and big SR. Play todays game on its merits. Guppy, Taylor, Williamson, I dont care what they do, as they will perform most games. Chapman, bat down the order, play todays game dont play to get a reputation, play smart.  


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  Reply # 1967876 4-Mar-2018 13:18
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I'm not quite sure why Phillips is being viewed as the solution right now. He's not keeping for Auckland and it isn't like he's in form. He didn't score many runs at all in December/January and averages 33.5 this in the ford trophy this season. He also bats in the top order for Auckland so isn't used to coming in later on, which is where he would bat for NZ. He's got potential but I suspect he's been told to go and develop some elements of his game. The selectors have been pretty tough on players who don't take feedback on board. I believe that Sodhi has been a player in this camp.

 

Chapman has had a great year, which is why he is there. He's a young player with ability, they are giving him a look and then will probably let him go on the A tour over the winter to see if he can learn from the experience. The selectors are trying to build a group for the world cup next year so they have a bit of time to get players where they need to be. The pace stocks are OK with Henry and Ferguson in reserve and spin is well covered. The top order is settled so it really is just the middle order / all rounder that needs to bed in.

 

Latham seems to drive people crazy but he has the third highest ODI aggregate for NZ in the last 12 months. Doing that while keeping (he's an ok keeper, not outstanding but passable) brings real value.

 

One of the reasons why we have had a strong team under Hesson is that they generally pick players who they think can fulfill a specific role and give them a decent run, particularly in the longer forms of the game. Not all players can do every role, we just don't have that sort of talent around. One of the things that made NZ cricket horrendous for a long time was dropping players after a couple of bad performances and not sticking with the class players. International batsmen don't generally reach their peak until their late 20s-early 30s. Nichols, Latham and Santner are all 25-26, it takes time for them to mature at the top level.




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  Reply # 1970096 6-Mar-2018 18:44
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tdgeek:

 

I'd like Chapman to stay but bat down the order. he is worth persevering with. Drop Latham and add Philips

 

No one saves games, they just happen to be batting when the game ends.

 

 

I could definitely vote that, but then you will get anti Aucklanders stating the whole team is Aucklanders lol. Ok maybe 4 out of the 11 arent.

 

Phillips for a young guy has a good head on his shoulders. He is an opener but I think he could bat 5, and play him at keeper instead of bowler. Then id be tempted to give George Worker a go at 6 and drop Nicholls, Nicholls had one good game this summer. Then CDGH, who clearly is struggling mentally what he should be doing, he was doing it so well prior to his leave, him and Santner have swapped places.

 

Anyway that gives us a full team, with Santner at 8 and 3 bowlers, who can all smack 10 each quite easily.

 

I think they will go Ferguson at Uni Oval for his pace, its one of our few greenish ODI pitches. I think he bowls in Auck better though, I dont know if its the humidity, but he looks more dangerous (not at Eden Park but in provincial). But then Sodhi plays there two. So yep Id say Ferg will get the nod and hopefully have a good one.

 

We just need 50% of our bastmen to stand up, id be happy all 5 of them making 30 each and 1 making a century. Anything is better than one or two making 90% of the runs every game. Guptill is due for a big one. Munro needs to remember t20 stopped 4 games ago lol. Williamson hopefully doesnt totally kill the run rate and Taylor can be reliable as ever.

 

Then we have a chance. Play as a team.

 

Did much come out of Kanes thoughts after his strange walk off the pitch? To be fair he cant be angry at the team when hes been failing himself. Munro and Taylor are the only ones scoring any consistently and now Santner.

 

That weather forecast looks dodgy. Is there any reason why games start at 11 in NZ not 10 or 1030 like Aus? 10am there is plenty of light. Anyway it looks at this stage 6pm ish a shower is due, hopefully it doesnt arrive until later.




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  Reply # 1970104 6-Mar-2018 18:57
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Handle9:

 

Latham seems to drive people crazy but he has the third highest ODI aggregate for NZ in the last 12 months. Doing that while keeping (he's an ok keeper, not outstanding but passable) brings real value.

 

 

Yeah but overseas. He averages 20 in NZ over his entire career, its not a one off, its an actual problem. He loves spin and slow pace.

 

Phillips scored the second most runs behind Chapman in the trophy and he scored a 1st class century during November.

 

I here your point, but you have to blood young players who show talent and if they fail you put them back into a-list. I think Phillips has shown just as much talent to be selected as Latham had going. Hes averaging 35 at 80SR list A, and being young his first season 1st class he averaged 43 at SR73 which is quick for a non ODI. He is a genuine keeper batsman, but you could bowl him as his bowling is better than munro with an average of 29 and rpo of 3.4. Then you could keep Latham and look at dropping CDGH who lets face it has lost it very quickly.

 

I just dont know if right now is the right time to blood him. But hes clearly a better batsman than Colin and I dont think he would have an issue batting down the line, going on his limited bowling you could use him as a bowler/batsman or if he goes wrong share with munro and williamson.

 

But yeah. I think trying him out in a dead rubber might a better bet if we lose.


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  Reply # 1970127 6-Mar-2018 19:35
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I want Latham out. He is one of those players that keeps letting the team down, then sneaks in a 79 and holds his place. Rinse and repeat. If he likes slow and spin but not seam that isnt good enough. 

 

DeG and Munro need to steady themselves, and be batsmen not hit what may. Munro does do that then he baby help himself. An innings is 3 hours, we need them there for more than 10 minutes. 

 

Yes we need more than 3 to contribute. 


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