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Networkn
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#2277575 16-Jul-2019 09:07

tdgeek:

GV27:

The ICC has stated they 'do not comment' on decisions made by umpires.

Given the history of proven match-fixing in the UK, plus some of the other decisions in that game (Nicholls, Taylor, etc) I will therefore choose my own conclusions about this mysteriously poor call that kept the home side of one the ICC's big three in the hunt at their own World Cup.

A bit cynical buts its hard not to look at that. UK is the home of cricket. Just as the quinitessential All Blacks are the home of rugby. UK cricket is old and steeped in tradition. The old fogie members in the Lords big room, and outside the door, clap as players move in and out. That is SOLELY tradition based. Its the Freemasons of cricket. UK has never won the World Cup. That cant keep happening

Cricket has been corrupt. Including NZ involvement. The much loved and respected Hanse Cronje who captained Soutb Africa took his own life when he was found out. UK cricket, the big one of the big three is NOT the Wimbledon of cricket in terms of class and vales

It's a bit discouraging to see conversations head in this direction. the C word is a big call in a situation like this one. It's much more likely a genuine mistake and failure to follow escalation or a system type issue than what you are suggesting.

It's pretty clear it was an incorrect call as confirmed by a number of well respected former referees, but to suggest it was definitively a game result changer is taking it too far.

It's disappointing ICC passed the buck, but if that's consistent with their other invitiations to comment of other refereeing decisions, then no-one can really complain.

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Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

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#2277579 16-Jul-2019 09:13

networkn:

TeaLeaf:

I personally think NZ cricket should be challenging the way the WC final was handled. It wasn't just human error, it was system error. Plus there is a 4th umpire and a 3rd in video, how they all missed the extra run from the ball hitting the "bat of god" is a serious breach of their comeptency and can only be explained by being biased/ie match fixed. Stokes should not have been facing that second to last ball either.

--Snip--

Now I see why the Aussies despise the whinging Poms, time for NZ to turn its back on England.

You sound slightly unhinged at this point.

I agree , OTT. But the overall sentiment is correct. Somewhere the art of sport and the game of cricket is lost.

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#2277581 16-Jul-2019 09:14

tdgeek:

I'd like to know is this is an old rule or a 2019 rule

Old rule that has been used for lesser levels of cricket but after it nearly occuring to India, you would have thought the ICC would have changed it, for me that is the complacency factor in which they are liable.

Imagine if this did happen to India. It would be over turned by now and either the cup be handed back to India or both names printed on the cup. There would have been rioting and potentially much more sininster events occur in Embassies in India.

The handed Kane Williamson man of the tournament simply because they know they F'd up (not that he didnt deserve it, despite me not liking his captaincy and involvement in player selection, he is good at the squeeze, just not instilling you can do it into the batsmen, ie confidence and selecting a team of equal or similar power to England with 1 simple change, use a proper Wicket Keeper with a high SR, oh like the one you took with you who scored a century in his one warm up game and like his 1 test match after scoring a century in that as well, he is dumped). Dump Latham, Nicholls, De GrandHomme. For god sake why would they not play Blundell and put our TEST opener Latham, in to open with Guptil who needs someone of that ability, then put Munro at 5. Munro, Neesham, Blundell, Santner. That would have been a winning middle order, all with high SR's and capable of hitting boundaries.

I dont think I will see NZ win a WC in my lifetime, so to have the ICC and Umpires F up this bad, Its going to take me a long time to watch cricket without vomitting, which is a shame as NZ vs Aus boxing day match will be a ripper.

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#2277584 16-Jul-2019 09:17

TeaLeaf:

Imagine if this did happen to India. It would be over turned by now and either the cup be handed back to India or both names printed on the cup. .

Show me *1* instance in any sport where this happened as it relates to a final?

You seriously need to chill out.

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#2277586 16-Jul-2019 09:18

networkn:

It's a bit discouraging to see conversations head in this direction. the C word is a big call in a situation like this one. It's much more likely a genuine mistake and failure to follow escalation or a system type issue than what you are suggesting.

It's pretty clear it was an incorrect call as confirmed by a number of well respected former referees, but to suggest it was definitively a game result changer is taking it too far.

It's disappointing ICC passed the buck, but if that's consistent with their other invitiations to comment of other refereeing decisions, then no-one can really complain.

Happens all the time in sport.. I thinks its especially tough because they drew so 1 would have done it. There were several other incorrect calls. For example if Roy had been given out they would have had 17 less runs. And then the final method used to separate the teams was also drawn. The boundary rule was a copy paste job from twenty20 and doesnt fit well with one day matches. If the match had been rained out the end result is shared winners, so this is an acceptable conclusion. But to award it to the team that got the most boundrys but lost the most players - dumb.

Every single bit of luck went against us. We definitely did not get the rub of the green, and they definitely did. Hey thats sport..

tdgeek

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#2277588 16-Jul-2019 09:20

networkn:

It's a bit discouraging to see conversations head in this direction. the C word is a big call in a situation like this one. It's much more likely a genuine mistake and failure to follow escalation or a system type issue than what you are suggesting.

It's pretty clear it was an incorrect call as confirmed by a number of well respected former referees, but to suggest it was definitively a game result changer is taking it too far.

It's disappointing ICC passed the buck, but if that's consistent with their other invitiations to comment of other refereeing decisions, then no-one can really complain.

Its cricket, its not rugby and many other sports. It can and has, bordered alongside boxing at times it has sunk that low. We all agree that the 1 run error does not automatically award he game to us. It was drawn. Although add that run back, and the only batter than can score boundaries was then off strike, it would have been very unlikely they could get back up. But, there was an issue, and the end result is a draw

ICC wont get involved as it undermines their "reputation" and umpire knowledge. Best to keep quite till it goes away

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#2277589 16-Jul-2019 09:22

Networkn, if they have nothing to Hide, make a statement, not "No comment". Thats why people are concerned.

Warne being UK based a lot alluded to Eng not winning the cup but had to tread lightly given his position

https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/14/shane-warne-takes-swipe-englands-cricket-world-cup-win-new-zealand-10300087/

I think Scott Styris tweet directly AT the ICC is priceless.

They have a lot to answer for and "no comment" is not good enough. I think NZ could take this through a legal system.

Think about all the fans who have been waiting since the 80s to see NZ lift the trophy to have the game have 5-6 majorly incorrect decisions and processes go wrong and then to have a trophy given to somebody that didnt beat NZ, based on runs scored by 4s, why not by how many wickets each team had left, why not by over turning one run from the Stokes mistake missed by 4 umpires and a match Referee.

Come on, its dodgy at the VERY least. I dont think Cheating is outside the realms of possibility given passed occurences and Eng winning in Eng being big money and so important to their status in world cricket. No way Erasmus could make so many mistakes. And his pairs not correct any of them.....

networkn

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#2277608 16-Jul-2019 09:28

TeaLeaf:

Networkn, if they have nothing to Hide, make a statement, not "No comment". Thats why people are concerned.

Warne being UK based a lot alluded to Eng not winning the cup but had to tread lightly given his position

https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/14/shane-warne-takes-swipe-englands-cricket-world-cup-win-new-zealand-10300087/

Has ICC commented on refereeing decisions in the past? If not, then they are acting consistently and there is no requirement except from your emotional standpoint for them to do so. If they have done so in the past and haven't now, then that's concerning.

I can see this thread heading in a disappointing direction and it's lost the positive tone it should have considering we came so close to being world champions, on the back of an absoloutely amazing match.

Ask yourselves this, do you think the Black Caps themselves are having these discussions?

I'm going to leave those of you wanting to discuss conspiracy and work yourselves into a rabbid lather which will ultimately make not one scrap of difference, to it.

tdgeek

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#2277609 16-Jul-2019 09:28

networkn:

TeaLeaf:

Imagine if this did happen to India. It would be over turned by now and either the cup be handed back to India or both names printed on the cup. .

Show me *1* instance in any sport where this happened as it relates to a final?

You seriously need to chill out.

Again you are right, but this is India, they are a magnitude worse than UK. Cricket is the most important religion in India

tdgeek

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#2277619 16-Jul-2019 09:31

End of the day, the spotlight on cricket matches will be permanently heightened from here on. So there is a benefit moving forward. And that match has been universally seen as that best ODI ever played, and we were in it (And I watched every minute, foregoing yesterdays sleep!)

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#2277621 16-Jul-2019 09:33

“If life was fair Baldrick, things like this wouldn’t happen.”

Still just as proud of the Black Caps, drawing the World Cup final (putting the “bat of god” incident aside) and then not getting the trophy on a technicality.
The rules were decided before the tournament. If the rules had been that teams on equal points after the round robin progressed to the semis on the basis of who beat who, then NZ wouldn’t have even featured, Pakistan would have.
If it was India in NZ’s position, I do fear for the game. We are a minnow, get used to it.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

tdgeek

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#2277623 16-Jul-2019 09:38

networkn:

Ask yourselves this, do you think the Black Caps themselves are having these discussions?

I'm going to leave those of you wanting to discuss conspiracy and work yourselves into a rabbid lather which will ultimately make not one scrap of difference, to it.

Yes they are https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/cricket-world-cup/114262500/cricket-world-cup-final-black-caps-believe-sharing-title-could-be-more-fair

How would this work in the RWC if a clerical error, a scoring issue, meant that the AB's only drew the final? Then the super over meant we lose as we didnt know of what we needed to do if there was a draw, until after the match ended?

Its the same thing, its not about the highs and lows of any game

I see where you are coming from but it actually isnt the distressed conspiracy theory that you feel we think it might be. Its an existing underbelly that rears its head at times in this sport.

TeaLeaf

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#2277626 16-Jul-2019 09:40

networkn:

Ask yourselves this, do you think the Black Caps themselves are having these discussions?

I'm going to leave those of you wanting to discuss conspiracy and work yourselves into a rabbid lather which will ultimately make not one scrap of difference, to it.

I guarantee you plenty of them are asking themselves this question now they actually know what occurred. Had they known at the time, the world cup would be theirs. As if the Umpires and match referees didnt know they messed up moments after the Stokes mess up in which he wouldnt have been on strike, they simply kept quiet.

Its not a conspiracy, I dont think or no for sure anything, but I want some answers.

For me this is my sport, Rugby means nothing to me, if this occured in Rugby it would be hell to pay by most Kiwis.

But the fact is Eng didnt win the WC and neither did they get the correct score based on the rules of the game. It is a massive injustice, anybody serious about cricket can see that and is saying it, some of them major players in the game.

The ICC has tarnished the sport and for me ruined it with what should have been corrected at the time of counting back boundaries, as it would have been known they messed up the score.

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#2277635 16-Jul-2019 09:51

TeaLeaf:

For me this is my sport, Rugby means nothing to me, if this occured in Rugby it would be hell to pay by most Kiwis.

It has happened in Rugby. See the 2007 Quarter Final loss to the French, or more recently a blatant referr error during the Lions Tour of NZ during the final moments of the final game that effectively cost NZ the series. The TMO was involved as were sideline judges.

There wasn't hell to pay (At least from an official standpoint), there was a massive amount of complaining by the press, and the fans, understandably, but the result stood and there were no consequences really of that.

I'll admit I am less invested in this than Rugby or a number of other sports, and I do understand the agnst you are feeling, but claims of corruption and conspiracy are taking it too far.

Anyways, feel free to vent your spleen for another dozen pages, that is your right, far be it from me to spoil the party, but I can't watch the discussion unravel any longer.

tdgeek

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#2277639 16-Jul-2019 09:59

networkn:

TeaLeaf:

For me this is my sport, Rugby means nothing to me, if this occured in Rugby it would be hell to pay by most Kiwis.

It has happened in Rugby. See the 2007 Quarter Final loss to the French, or more recently a blatant referr error during the Lions Tour of NZ during the final moments of the final game that effectively cost NZ the series. The TMO was involved as were sideline judges.

There wasn't hell to pay (At least from an official standpoint), there was a massive amount of complaining by the press, and the fans, understandably, but the result stood and there were no consequences really of that.

I'll admit I am less invested in this than Rugby or a number of other sports, and I do understand the agnst you are feeling, but claims of corruption and conspiracy are taking it too far.

Anyways, feel free to vent your spleen for another dozen pages, that is your right, far be it from me to spoil the party, but I can't watch the discussion unravel any longer.

Your two examples aren't a comparison. Cricket has ref errors also. If you go to the third umpire the umpire's call right or wrong is 90% of it

The issue wasnt the ebbs and flows, that all sports have, its writing down the wrong score. Then when the game is drawn we then tell you what you needed to do in case it was a draw. A comparison in rugger is that whoever kicked the most goals. But what if you got the most tries and kicked less goals?? What if its the team that was penalised less, but we played harder so were more exposed? Maybe toss of a coin is better as thats what it comes down to

Bad luck and good luck is fine, but please mark us as per the rule

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