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Topic # 233302 9-Apr-2018 17:06
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Laurel Hubbard will compete for gold momentarily. I have been following with some interest comments made by her fellow competitors and general commentary.

 

Whilst I am for inclusion in the general sense of the word, I think there are time where common sense should prevail. 

 

Laurel was born a male. He competed as a champion weightlifter as a man, and whilst there are some changes in body composition as a result of the choice to move to a woman, the muscles and physique are largely still male which I feel does unfairly give her an advantage over the other women in the division.

 

Personally, I feel she should have been excluded from the womens competition. I am not sure of this, but I feel switch to being a women, physically wouldn't have significantly adjusted her ability to lift in the mens division.


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  Reply # 1992174 9-Apr-2018 17:14
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Seems to be 2 camps.

 

The 'times are changing' and everyone needs to be PC and inclusive as to not step on one or other groups toes.

 

And 'What would our greek forefathers have done'

 

 

 

Not the only case/sport at present where ones earlier up-bringing could now impact either

 

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2018/03/a-level-playing-field/ 




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  Reply # 1992176 9-Apr-2018 17:20
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I can't really get my head around the fact that he/she doesn't feel he/she has an advantage they shouldn't have. 

 

My own sense of justice would prevent me from competing as a woman I think. 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1992180 9-Apr-2018 17:29
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no matter the origin, that had to smart.

7kg leaps when noone is confident of more than 3 pretty much covers it.

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  Reply # 1992182 9-Apr-2018 17:32
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networkn:

 

I can't really get my head around the fact that he/she doesn't feel he/she has an advantage they shouldn't have. 

 

My own sense of justice would prevent me from competing as a woman I think. 

 

 

 

 

I agree. Semenya is the same? Her operation has helped het change gender, I am sure they have reduced the masculine nature of their makeup, but its a mans body inherently. If the sport was a skill sport instead of a strength sport I see no issue. Take soccer. Thats all skill and fitness. There are smaller and larger female soccer players, a female that used to be male wont give any advantage. But weightlifting???? 

 

For the record I have no issue with LGBT and trans. Im glad they are better placed these days than in the last so can just get on with life


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  Reply # 1992187 9-Apr-2018 17:41
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Laurel unfortunately has injured herself, the replays were a bit painful to watch as the elbow bent in a direction it shouldn't. They just announced she has withdrawn due to injury. 


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  Reply # 1992199 9-Apr-2018 18:15
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One day, those born female will not win anything, women sport will be dominated by them. Just need to catch on to this gold mine.


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  Reply # 1992200 9-Apr-2018 18:18
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tdgeek:

 

networkn:

 

I can't really get my head around the fact that he/she doesn't feel he/she has an advantage they shouldn't have. 

 

My own sense of justice would prevent me from competing as a woman I think. 

 

 

 

 

I agree. Semenya is the same? Her operation has helped het change gender, I am sure they have reduced the masculine nature of their makeup, but its a mans body inherently. If the sport was a skill sport instead of a strength sport I see no issue. Take soccer. Thats all skill and fitness. There are smaller and larger female soccer players, a female that used to be male wont give any advantage. But weightlifting???? 

 

For the record I have no issue with LGBT and trans. Im glad they are better placed these days than in the last so can just get on with life

 

 

Semenya had not had an operation.

 

She was born with male DNA but, as nature has it, you need a series of male genes working perfectly to form male external features.

 

One of the male hormonal genes was defective, so she has female appearance.

 

She was raised female. Identifies as female. But has male chromosomes. And male testosterone levels. IAAF allows her to compete as female. Probably no different from those competing under TUEs.


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  Reply # 1992216 9-Apr-2018 18:43
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networkn:

 

I can't really get my head around the fact that he/she doesn't feel he/she has an advantage they shouldn't have. 

 

My own sense of justice would prevent me from competing as a woman I think. 

 

 

he/she/WHATEVER is NOT a woman. Never was, never will be. And with that he/she/WHATEVER should not be allowed to compete in the games under the current longstanding historical rules.

 

But young equalitarian Libs salivate for the opportunity to whine and moan rather than look for a solution that could work.

 

Time for the Transgender Games me thinks. It might just keep the moaners and social media opportunists quiet and provide an opportunity to those affected to move on and compete with real equality. That is of course if that is what competition is all about?

 

The TV ratings will of course tell the obvious story ............. Most people don't care about equality.

 

edit: Changed IT to WHATEVER


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  Reply # 1992345 9-Apr-2018 20:22
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Be best to get rid of gender based sports , in the name of equality and to seek equality in all things.


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  Reply # 1992346 9-Apr-2018 20:23
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DaveB:

 

networkn:

 

I can't really get my head around the fact that he/she doesn't feel he/she has an advantage they shouldn't have. 

 

My own sense of justice would prevent me from competing as a woman I think. 

 

 

he/she/WHATEVER is NOT a woman. Never was, never will be. And with that he/she/WHATEVER should not be allowed to compete in the games under the current longstanding historical rules.

 

But young equalitarian Libs salivate for the opportunity to whine and moan rather than look for a solution that could work.

 

Time for the Transgender Games me thinks. It might just keep the moaners and social media opportunists quiet and provide an opportunity to those affected to move on and compete with real equality. That is of course if that is what competition is all about?

 

The TV ratings will of course tell the obvious story ............. Most people don't care about equality.

 

edit: Changed IT to WHATEVER

 

 

 

 

I see you've edited it. But it still comes across a bit crass. Gender isn't really as black and white as many would like. However I agree that it's a particularly thorny problem for sport. It's going to be a nightmare for sporting bodies to determine, for example Kate Weatherly (mountain=biking) vs Laurel Hubbard (weight lifting) as far as I can tell, transitioned at very different ages, as to whether there is a large advantage. Hubbard is almost 40 I think and had competed as a biological male as had Weatherly. The difference was the latter began hormone treatment at 17 and Hubbard at maybe 34?

 

Weatherly comments that despite extra training, she is losing speed and strength compared to when she was a biological male, but the question is despite this how much more of an advantage do Hubbard and Weatherly have by having almost both being fully developed males (or fully developed for Hubbard) when the transitioned? Like most people, I would say, unquestionably, a lot, but by how much is going to be a nightmare to work out. 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1992348 9-Apr-2018 20:33
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I do not have an issue this this. The sports controlling body is ok with it and the competitors are open about their circumstances.





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  Reply # 1992360 9-Apr-2018 20:47
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cruxis:

 

Be best to get rid of gender based sports , in the name of equality and to seek equality in all things.

 

 

In seeking equality that would indeed be the pinnacle of equality. 


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  Reply # 1992368 9-Apr-2018 21:00
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cruxis:

 

Be best to get rid of gender based sports , in the name of equality and to seek equality in all things.

 

 

OMG!

 

What is wrong with you people? Equality has its place, sure. But equality in all things? Think about it. Good grief!


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  Reply # 1992394 9-Apr-2018 21:02
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Former male competing in women's MMA in the video below. Where do we draw the line?





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  Reply # 1992402 9-Apr-2018 21:24
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Sam91:

 

Former male competing in women's MMA in the video below. Where do we draw the line?




 

 

 

 

https://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4131174/fallon-fox-mma-science-transgender-fighting-athletes

 

 

 

nice article about the above


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