Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8
Devastation by stupidity
12474 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1992719 10-Apr-2018 13:32
Send private message

kryptonjohn:

 

If your friend has published research then you can name him. Who is this?

 

Hubbard was unremarkable as a young male weightlifter but after transition to an old female has a world championship medal and was on track to win Commonwealth gold. That makes it look to me that she has acquired an advantage.

 

Val Adams is a very large and powerful woman and one of the all time greats of women's shot put. But a middle of the road male shot putter would beat her easily. Men throw a shot *double* the weight of the women and they throw it further. All it takes is an average male shot putter to transition to female and all women's shot records will be beaten. Is that fair? I don't think so.

 

 

I didn't mention his name because he is retired and is currently undergoing medical treatment so I can't ask his permission. He is well-known in his field and has published many research papers around the world but I don't feel comfortable mentioning him in this context without asking him first. Either take my word for it or don't. I don't care.

 

Edit: I forgot to respond to your second part. Have you taken an average male shot putter and transitioned him to female and seen her beat all women's shot records? Until you have, you are just speculating. Don't try to present it as established fact. It is simply unsubstantiated opinion, like most of the other posts here.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1992748 10-Apr-2018 13:58
Send private message

MikeB4: @tdgeek the pressence of controversy does not eliminate fact.

 

Well here's a fact. The men's 85kg combined world record is 396kg but the women's 90kg combined record is only 283. Gavin Hubbard competed in 105kg, where the WR combined is 437kg)

 

The difference is huge and it is obvious that a male weightlifter transitioning to female gets a massive and unfair advantage.

 

 


 
 
 
 


1424 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #1992750 10-Apr-2018 13:59
Send private message

personally I'm outraged. this should be banned as doping. also i'm in for 3rd olympic/sport category + 4th paralympics with modification

 

 - clean category for no doping, supplements, etc
 - paralympics
 - paralympics with modifications
 - open category for everybody else who wish to compete

 

apologies if I used wrong term "modification", that's just because I don't know how to put it in better words.





helping others at evgenyk.nz


2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1992752 10-Apr-2018 14:06
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

If your friend has published research then you can name him. Who is this?

 

Hubbard was unremarkable as a young male weightlifter but after transition to an old female has a world championship medal and was on track to win Commonwealth gold. That makes it look to me that she has acquired an advantage.

 

Val Adams is a very large and powerful woman and one of the all time greats of women's shot put. But a middle of the road male shot putter would beat her easily. Men throw a shot *double* the weight of the women and they throw it further. All it takes is an average male shot putter to transition to female and all women's shot records will be beaten. Is that fair? I don't think so.

 

 

I didn't mention his name because he is retired and is currently undergoing medical treatment so I can't ask his permission. He is well-known in his field and has published many research papers around the world but I don't feel comfortable mentioning him in this context without asking him first. Either take my word for it or don't. I don't care.

 

Edit: I forgot to respond to your second part. Have you taken an average male shot putter and transitioned him to female and seen her beat all women's shot records? Until you have, you are just speculating. Don't try to present it as established fact. It is simply unsubstantiated opinion, like most of the other posts here.

 

 

That sounds questionable to me. You don't need his opinion if he's published it, by definition. If you won't or can't reference this research then it's a bit of a joke you complaining about others posting unsubstantiated opinion while posting your own appeal to authority.

 

The *fact* is that Laurel Hubbard went from mens 105kg where the WR is over 400kg to women's 90kg where the WR is under 300kg. If you don't *feel* that's an advantage then it's my *opinion* is that you are delusional.

 

How do you think it would go if Anthony Joshua transitioned into women's boxing? What about Joseph Parker?

 

 

 

 


21156 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1992757 10-Apr-2018 14:12
Send private message

MikeB4: @tdgeek the pressence of controversy does not eliminate fact.

 

I agree. is the fact the left or right side of the controversy? Thats what is the unknown. If its clinically proven that reassignment surgery and medication brings the previously male musculature, bone structure and size and density back to near female levels, then there is no two sides to the story or controversy. The there is the equality side built up over tough years as LGBT fights for equality. In sports its not a PC, political fight, its about playing fair, that is what has got lost in the supposed fight for equality. This issue isnt an issue about treating LGBT fairly , but that is what is being put out there  


2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1992758 10-Apr-2018 14:14
Send private message

I don't want to knock Laurel Hubbard. It just annoys me that women could well find themselves uncompetitive due to transgender former males being much stronger than them. This has the potential to ruin women's sports. 

 

 


2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1992761 10-Apr-2018 14:19
Send private message

Otago University professor in physiology Alison Heather:

 

"I don't know what the solution is, but right now it is not fair on CIS females competing against transgender women." 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/99434993/professor-of-physiology-says-trans-athlete-has-advantage-in-speed-and-power

 

 


 
 
 
 


21156 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1992784 10-Apr-2018 15:01
Send private message

kryptonjohn:

 

I don't want to knock Laurel Hubbard. It just annoys me that women could well find themselves uncompetitive due to transgender former males being much stronger than them. This has the potential to ruin women's sports. 

 

 

 

 

Renee Richards had that I think, there was a tournament, and almost all the women withdrew. Pro tennis


21156 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1992785 10-Apr-2018 15:04
Send private message

kryptonjohn:

 

Otago University professor in physiology Alison Heather:

 

"I don't know what the solution is, but right now it is not fair on CIS females competing against transgender women." 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/99434993/professor-of-physiology-says-trans-athlete-has-advantage-in-speed-and-power

 

 

 

 

No feelings there, just plain fact

 

The theme of this thread is that those who disagree, do so as its unfair to sportswomen. Those that see otherwise, are treating this as a pro vs anti transgender issue, it's not


1004 posts

Uber Geek


  #1992786 10-Apr-2018 15:07
Send private message

I think that is total BS that 'she' is allowed to compete. It's completely unfair for the real sportswomen and makes the whole thing a bit of a joke. PC gone mad. 


5816 posts

Uber Geek


  #1992806 10-Apr-2018 15:55
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

Have you taken an average male shot putter and transitioned him to female and seen her beat all women's shot records?

 

 

That is the sort of data that would lend a factual context. 

 

In the meantime I'm not sure I agree with your learned friends opinion.  There is more to ability than size.





Mike



22899 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1992811 10-Apr-2018 15:59
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

Edit: I forgot to respond to your second part. Have you taken an average male shot putter and transitioned him to female and seen her beat all women's shot records? Until you have, you are just speculating. Don't try to present it as established fact. It is simply unsubstantiated opinion, like most of the other posts here.

 

 

Do you know if this has been done ever? There are *very* few transgender athletes how could they conduct these studies in a meaningful way. 

 

Logically, it must be that a MAN who has trained as a weight lifter who then competes as a women would have a different makeup, I would want to see very strong statistics to prove there was no advantage. 

 

 




22899 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1992812 10-Apr-2018 16:01
Send private message

Sad news for Laurel Hubbard who announced just this minute that her Elbow injury is career ending. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.

 

 


Devastation by stupidity
12474 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1992813 10-Apr-2018 16:03
Send private message

kryptonjohn:

 

That sounds questionable to me.

 

 

Like I said, I don't care. Take it or leave it.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


Devastation by stupidity
12474 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1992822 10-Apr-2018 16:13
Send private message

networkn:

 

Sad news for Laurel Hubbard who announced just this minute that her Elbow injury is career ending. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.

 

 

My sympathies to her. 

 

Back to the issue of fairness, how fair is it to allow a 60 kg female to compete against one weighing 80 kg in any sport, or a tall tennis player against a short one, or a long-legged sprinter, etc. etc. Sure, fighters are weighed but this does not extend to all sports. 

 

People are different. Some are bigger than others. Some have longer arms. Some have more determination. If you start trying to even out all the differences, where do you stop? What is the point of competition at all? I doubt the real issue is about transgender athletes. It probably has more to do with atavistic attitudes towards transgender people.

 

  





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic




News »

Freeview On Demand app launches on Sony Android TVs
Posted 6-Aug-2020 13:35


UFB hits more than one million connections
Posted 6-Aug-2020 09:42


D-Link A/NZ extends COVR Wi-Fi EasyMesh System series with new three-pack
Posted 4-Aug-2020 15:01


New Zealand software Rfider tracks coffee from Colombia all the way to New Zealand businesses
Posted 3-Aug-2020 10:35


Logitech G launches Pro X Wireless gaming headset
Posted 3-Aug-2020 10:21


Sony Alpha 7S III provides supreme imaging performance
Posted 3-Aug-2020 10:11


Sony introduces first CFexpress Type A memory card
Posted 3-Aug-2020 10:05


Marsello acquires Goody consolidating online and in-store marketing position
Posted 30-Jul-2020 16:26


Fonterra first major customer for Microsoft's New Zealand datacentre
Posted 30-Jul-2020 08:07


Everything we learnt at the IBM Cloud Forum 2020
Posted 29-Jul-2020 14:45


Dropbox launches native HelloSign workflow and data residency in Australia
Posted 29-Jul-2020 12:48


Spark launches 5G in Palmerston North
Posted 29-Jul-2020 09:50


Lenovo brings speed and smarter features to new 5G mobile gaming phone
Posted 28-Jul-2020 22:00


Withings raises $60 million to enable bridge between patients and healthcare
Posted 28-Jul-2020 21:51


QNAP integrates Catalyst Cloud Object Storage into Hybrid Backup solution
Posted 28-Jul-2020 21:40



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.