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  #1994768 12-Apr-2018 12:19
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Rikkitic:

 

Here are links to two scientific papers citing extensive research that concludes that there is no evidence that transgender athletes have a competitive advantage. This has been accepted by international competitive sports bodies including the IOC. 

 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-016-0621-y

 

http://www.caaws.ca/e/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Devries_lit_review2.pdf

 

I can find many more papers like this, but I don't see much point since the armchair experts here clearly know so much better.

 

 

I read that second paper very differently to you. First of all it, it is primarily a comparison of "physically born men" with "physically born women" and not transitioned athletes.

 

It certainly does not answer the question "Do Transitioned Athletes Compete at an Advantage or Disadvantage as compared with Physically Born Men and Women" with any conclusion other than that there is not enough data to draw any conclusion.

 

Read the conclusions again:

 

1. Overall conclusion is that there is not enough data.

 

2. Performance data was not taken from transitioned athletes. The literature review is almost entirely based on the scientific study of non-transitioned people.

 

3. No exercise tests were used.

 

4. The only relevant study was severely limited. It was restropective, only considered muscle mass and haemoglobin, and did not measure actual athletic performance.

 

5. Actual "performance during athletic events needs to be assessed"

 

6. The data "does not appear to suggest that transitioned athletes would compete at an advantage or disadvantage as compared with physically born men and women

 

7. There is not enough research to form a consensus.

 

8. "... we may never truly know whether transitioned athletes compete at an advantage or disadvantage as compared with physically born men and women."

 

The following is the most representative quote:

 

 

6.3 Based on the evidence presented above, would either transitioned men or women compete at an advantage against physically born men and women?

 

Based on the evidence above, to date there is really no concrete evidence to support or refute that transitioned men or women would compete at an advantage as compared with physically born men and women.

 

 

Using your approach is like arguing that non-terran aliens exist simply because we don't have enough concrete evidence to show that they do or don't exist.

 

 

 

 


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  #1994771 12-Apr-2018 12:23
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@Hammerer: nice summary.  You nailed it.





Mike

 
 
 
 


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  #1994774 12-Apr-2018 12:26
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it all boils down to the people's misunderstanding of the word evidence. There are 3 things, evidence, conclusions, but when people read something they jump on the word evidence as proof. When in fact, evidence is just what we see. The conclusion is what we can say from all the evidence (what we see) presented and lumped together. Proof? Well, there is very very very rarely enough evidence to have proof, even though people like to think there is. Most of the time, we really don't know. But people don't like to say we don't know.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #1994845 12-Apr-2018 13:19
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Batman:

 

it all boils down to the people's misunderstanding of the word evidence. There are 3 things, evidence, conclusions, but when people read something they jump on the word evidence as proof. When in fact, evidence is just what we see. The conclusion is what we can say from all the evidence (what we see) presented and lumped together. Proof? Well, there is very very very rarely enough evidence to have proof, even though people like to think there is. Most of the time, we really don't know. But people don't like to say we don't know.

 

 

Evidence can also mean different things in legal and scientific contexts.





Mike

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  #1994904 12-Apr-2018 14:43
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Yes and I thought they are having a non legal, scientific debate.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #1994914 12-Apr-2018 15:01
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Using your approach is like arguing that non-terran aliens exist simply because we don't have enough concrete evidence to show that they do or don't exist.

 

Isn't that the first thing you learn in Science... Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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  #1995151 13-Apr-2018 08:49
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I'll say it again. This thread is about a performance advantage being unfair. It is not about discriminating against trans people. There is no proof they have an advantage, there is no proof they do not have an advantage. Until there is proof, there can be no change to allow a male born person who changed to female identity competing against women.

 

If the numbers are growing, a new Transgender category. If a certain sport requires only skill and not strength/endurance, they can complete in female competitions  


 
 
 
 


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  #1996974 16-Apr-2018 12:45
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Batman: Yes and I thought they are having a non legal, scientific debate.

 

It's rule making, based on science.  So legal and scientific influences.





Mike

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