Support for 'Crusaders' name change appears to be growing..

Forums › Sports › Support for 'Crusaders' name change appears to be growing..

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#2256783 12-Jun-2019 15:06

tdgeek:

The sides in question were fighting for what each believed was the greater good. So many countries did that in history. At the time, for side A, side B was the enemy, and for side B, side A was the enemy. Now they aren't. And this applies to many countries. Then was then, now is now

So we're saying 'that was then' to get away from having to change the name.

But the team being named from an event that started hundreds of years before people even arrived in New Zealand is still good and relevant for a sports team based in New Zealand?

What happened to 'that was then' all of a sudden? Seems like trying to have this both ways tbh.

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#2256784 12-Jun-2019 15:06

GV27:

tdgeek:

Does the same name change apply to St John?

Has there been an incident where St Johns ambulance officers have killed 50 people in the name of John the Apostle that I'm not aware of?

Has there been an incident where a Canterbury Crusader has killed 50 peope in the name of the Crusades that *I* am not aware of?

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#2256785 12-Jun-2019 15:09

networkn:

If they were *picking* a name now from scratch then I could understand it, though I'd like to understand the relevance to the Rebels in Melboure (Not sure if there has been a historically relevant Rebellion in Melbourne and if there was, are we sure no-one was killed, and no voilence was participated in), Warratahs in NSW and pretty much all the other teams names as "relevance" to the region.

"The Rebels name was chosen for the Melbourne ARC team in consultation with the local rugby community;[54] VRU officials decided on the Rebels name in reference to Victoria's first Wallaby, Sir Edward "Weary" Dunlop. Chris "Buddha" Handy at the launch, said that "like the great Weary Dunlop, Victorian rugby has a history of daring to be different, a touch of the larrikin, and always having a go. These qualities are what you want in a Rebel and characterise the way Victoria is successfully tackling this historic year."[55] The name was retained for the Super team."

Man is that uninspiring.

But Canterbury has a proud and long history - I'm sure there's a decent historic name from that region that could be tapped into if they do decide to change the name.

GV27

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#2256787 12-Jun-2019 15:10

networkn:

Has there been an incident where a Canterbury Crusader has killed 50 peope in the name of the Crusades that *I* am not aware of?

Just the bloke who toured the battle sites, wrote Crusades-related stuff all over his gun and then murdered a bunch of people in their place of worship because they were Islamic.

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#2256788 12-Jun-2019 15:11

GV27:

tdgeek:

Does the same name change apply to St John?

Has there been an incident where St Johns ambulance officers have killed 50 people in the name of John the Apostle that I'm not aware of?

What has St John ambulance officers killing 50 people have to do with it? They didn't. Neither did the rugby team

Back in this thread, it was explained that St John back then was also involved in that conflict. I am pretty sure it was that conflict, or at least it was against the same opponents. The Maltese Cross also has negative significance. So, St John today, carries out great work, but in the name of a past negative historical event. But everyone knows that St John and the Crusaders are great names for great reasons. They are not based on a specific event

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#2256790 12-Jun-2019 15:17

GV27:

tdgeek:

The sides in question were fighting for what each believed was the greater good. So many countries did that in history. At the time, for side A, side B was the enemy, and for side B, side A was the enemy. Now they aren't. And this applies to many countries. Then was then, now is now

So we're saying 'that was then' to get away from having to change the name.

But the team being named from an event that started hundreds of years before people even arrived in New Zealand is still good and relevant for a sports team based in New Zealand?

What happened to 'that was then' all of a sudden? Seems like trying to have this both ways tbh.

Can you show where the team was named after that event? Canterbury, they wanted a catchy C word, they found one, that's how it was named. Like many names as many here has stated, many names can be linked to an event or loss of life, but none of them have been named to represent those events. The names are nouns not proper nouns, they are generic

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#2256791 12-Jun-2019 15:18

GV27:

networkn:

Has there been an incident where a Canterbury Crusader has killed 50 peope in the name of the Crusades that *I* am not aware of?

Just the bloke who toured the battle sites, wrote Crusades-related stuff all over his gun and then murdered a bunch of people in their place of worship because they were Islamic.

What did the Super Rugby team Canterbury Crusaders, have to do with this lunatic?

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#2256965 12-Jun-2019 19:05

When I get involved in a topic like this, I try to be realistic. Sensible.Non emotional. I then post what I feel, and when I get no reply to certain points, that tells me these are key points. Ive asked over and over and over re St John. Yes, GV has replied once , but St John is the other "Crusaders"

No one in NZ will tell me that we named Crusaders due to those wars, no one will tell me that we named St John due to those wars. Thats a FACT.

Its unfortunate. Its not intentional. It's generic.

Our Muslim community may have arrived in NZ 6 minutes ago, or 6 months ago, or 26 years ago. They may not want to share their feelings. T hey may feel we respect NZ, they didn't mean it. If I was emigrating to a foreign country, I would feel the need to fit in. If I felt these were mean and nasty people I would leave. Kiwis are not mean and nasty. If we name a team using a C word that sounds cool, thats ALL it is. No more, no less

Yes, its worth a discussion, but its about context.

GV27

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#2257129 13-Jun-2019 07:24

tdgeek:

Yes, its worth a discussion, but its about context.

That's true. And I'm sure most people would be open to changing the name regardless if something more local and better came along anyway - it's not like franchise sports teams don't change their names or move cities. We're not talking about a club with hundreds of years of history under one name like the Ponsonby Ponies.

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#2257397 13-Jun-2019 13:32

GV27:

tdgeek:

Yes, its worth a discussion, but its about context.

That's true. And I'm sure most people would be open to changing the name regardless if something more local and better came along anyway - it's not like franchise sports teams don't change their names or move cities. We're not talking about a club with hundreds of years of history under one name like the Ponsonby Ponies.

The Ponsonby Ponies? Really!!!!!

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#2257401 13-Jun-2019 13:42

Technofreak:

The Ponsonby Ponies? Really!!!!!

I'm sure there's better examples, but that's just the most local one to me that I could think of?

Point still stands: Private franchised sports team change their name and cities all the time. Super Rugby has been around for all of 23 years. AFL teams do it, NFL teams do it....I can't even tell you which South African team eventually sprang from 'Free State Orange'.

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#2257407 13-Jun-2019 13:58

tdgeek:

GV27:

tdgeek:

The sides in question were fighting for what each believed was the greater good. So many countries did that in history. At the time, for side A, side B was the enemy, and for side B, side A was the enemy. Now they aren't. And this applies to many countries. Then was then, now is now

So we're saying 'that was then' to get away from having to change the name.

But the team being named from an event that started hundreds of years before people even arrived in New Zealand is still good and relevant for a sports team based in New Zealand?

What happened to 'that was then' all of a sudden? Seems like trying to have this both ways tbh.

Can you show where the team was named after that event? Canterbury, they wanted a catchy C word, they found one, that's how it was named. Like many names as many here has stated, many names can be linked to an event or loss of life, but none of them have been named to represent those events. The names are nouns not proper nouns, they are generic

Like the generic swords and shields and knights in armour galloping out before the games which, of course, in no way refer to the armoured knights of the crusades.