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  # 2266363 28-Jun-2019 15:31
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mm1352000:

 

Speculating: perhaps they don't believe that god made them that way.

 

Society at large hasn't always thought that being gay was not a choice.

 

 

Even if you believe it is a choice, what business is it of yours? I dislike so much about contemporary religious practice that it is hard to single any one thing out, but high on my list is religious busybodies minding other people's business. If you think it is sinful to be gay, fine, don't be gay. But don't try to tell someone else what to do just because you don't like it. The fact that you are religious does not give you any special rights. That fact that you have faith does not entitle you to judge those who think differently. If your god is so great and powerful and omniscient and whatever, then she doesn't need your help. She is perfectly capable of casting all those sinners into hell without you pointing them out to her. 

 

  





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 2266385 28-Jun-2019 16:19
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Rikkitic:

 

mm1352000:

 

Speculating: perhaps they don't believe that god made them that way.

 

Society at large hasn't always thought that being gay was not a choice.

 

 

Even if you believe it is a choice, what business is it of yours? I dislike so much about contemporary religious practice that it is hard to single any one thing out, but high on my list is religious busybodies minding other people's business.

 

 

Again, I can only speculate, but to me the cause seems to be the combination of:

 

     

  1. belief in the existence of hell
  2. belief that sin without repentance/salvation/whatever means people will be sent to hell
  3. belief that ABC (in this case: homosexuality) is in some way a sin
  4. care for other people (especially not wanting them to go to hell) leading to speech/action

 

Pretty much everybody in this thread has said that all of these attributes are fine either individually or in some combination.

 

In particular, many including yourself have said that people should be free to believe whatever they like, and/or that the goodness/caring/help-the-less-fortunate aspects of religion are good.

 

To specifically address your question: obviously it's no business of mine. I'm just saying that to me it looks like the instinct that motivates these people to do the good things that they do in society (eg. foodbanks, housing the homeless, counseling etc.) is the same instinct that causes them to speak out in the way that Folau has done. As Folau himself has said (whether you believe him or not): he is "warning" because he cares. Usually these messages are delivered with more tact/subtlety. In this case it seems not.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2266394 28-Jun-2019 16:34
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It's a requirement to teach these things. It's not a choice to live and let live. 

 

 

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Recorded in the final verses of the Gospel of Matthew: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."





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  # 2266442 28-Jun-2019 18:12
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Shadowfoot:

 

It's a requirement to teach these things. It's not a choice to live and let live. 

 

 

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Recorded in the final verses of the Gospel of Matthew: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

 

 

A commandment to teach what things? I don't think the Gospel of Matthew has ever mentioned to tell homosexuals to repent or go to hell.

 

Edit: here's a very short summary ...

 

https://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/gospel-of-matthew.htm

 

Gospel of Matthew: What is the Significance?
The Gospel of Matthew presents many important facts and significant lessons. First, it clearly establishes that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that was prophesied throughout the Old Testament. Second, it proves that Jesus was the Son of God, whom He claimed to be through living a sinless and perfect life. Third, the Gospel records Jesus performing miracles over nature (calming the storm; Matthew 8:23-27), healing people (curing the servant; Matthew 8:5-13) and raising the dead (Jairus' daughter; Matthew 9:18-19). Fourth, Jesus personally gives over 200 real and practical lessons of how God desires people to live, respond through challenging circumstances, and make choices regarding their future for eternity. A few examples of these include: having faith (Matthew 9:29), dealing with fear (Matthew 8:26), God answering prayers (Matthew 8:2), the promise of salvation (Matthew 10:22), obeying God (Matthew 15:19), loving your neighbor (Matthew 19:19), sacrificing (Matthew 20:22), resolving legal issues (Matthew 5:25), how to give to others (Matthew 6:2), forgiving others that sin against you (Matthew 6:14), resisting temptation (Matthew 4:2), being a hypocrite (Matthew 23:28), acknowledging Christ (Matthew 10:32), and the image of Heaven and Hell (Matthew 13:49, 50). Every word spoken and written in this Gospel can be applied to life in a practical manner. Of course, a summary of this extremely important book of the Bible can only provide highlights, and is not a replacement for reading the actual text.





Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  # 2266446 28-Jun-2019 18:23
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Shadowfoot:

It's a requirement to teach these things. It's not a choice to live and let live. 


 


From Wikipedia:


Recorded in the final verses of the Gospel of Matthew: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."


Unfortunately, that verse is the curse of christianity on the rest of us.


And I'm sick of hearing that Folau is spouting this nonsense out of love. There was a time when it was legally okay for parents to beat their children and I remember hearing some say they did so out of love. This kind of 'love' we can all do without.


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  # 2266536 28-Jun-2019 21:03
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Wow,  just read through this thread.  I looks like some people have taken this AwakenWithJP comedy skit seriously.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agIIDGRspKY


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  # 2266618 29-Jun-2019 09:34
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With Israel Folau the church demands a kind of free speech that keeps gays in the firing line

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jun/27/with-israel-folau-the-church-demands-a-kind-of-free-speech-that-keeps-gays-in-the-firing-line?


 
 
 
 


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  # 2266678 29-Jun-2019 11:11
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surfisup1000: I am more interested in the legal argument side of this, as opposed to his particular views.

Imo the legal problem for Folau is that his contract probably specifies he has marketing and brand responsibilities for Rugby Australia. In that the players are the public profile of Rugby Australia. The code of conduct in part is intended to keep players on the right side of that requirement.

Asics has already dropped him as a brand ambassador. Rugby Australia has the same problem.

Edit: this isn't going to be a problem for a normal person on the checkout at pak-an-save because zero brand or marketing responsibilities defined or expected for that.

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  # 2266709 29-Jun-2019 11:27
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Batman:

 

David Pocock is a Christian and this is what he had to say

 

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/amazing-grace-what-it-means-for-me-to-follow-jesus/10100972

 

 

For this reason, the Bible Society initially informed me that they were not including my contribution due to my public support of equal rights in marriage.

 

Sums it up. Humans are new to the Earth, we evolve, but for some, we are nit to evolve, we are to take ancient writings as the start and end of our evolvement.


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  # 2267090 30-Jun-2019 07:27
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gzt: ........

Asics has already dropped him as a brand ambassador. Rugby Australia has the same problem.

Edit: this isn't going to be a problem for a normal person on the checkout at pak-an-save because zero brand or marketing responsibilities defined or expected for that.

 

 

 

You think ........ https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/why-was-a-disabled-grandad-sacked-by-asda-for-sharing-a-billy-connolly-clip/


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  # 2267131 30-Jun-2019 09:12
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I am in Lisbon at the moment and this evening we stumbled across their annual gay pride march. We happened across the march about halfway through and I guess we watched at least 10,000 predominantly young festival goers file past us in what I can only describe as openly joyous celebration.

On the other side of the world, this was a genuine expression of love for the gay community and quite the opposite of the 'love' Israel as been claiming he has for gay people. After a week of listening to nonsense from a small but vocal fundamentalist minority, this evening was a breath of fresh air.



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  # 2267212 30-Jun-2019 11:21
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dafman: I am in Lisbon at the moment and this evening we stumbled across their annual gay pride march. We happened across the march about halfway through and I guess we watched at least 10,000 predominantly young festival goers file past us in what I can only describe as openly joyous celebration.

On the other side of the world, this was a genuine expression of love for the gay community and quite the opposite of the 'love' Israel as been claiming he has for gay people. After a week of listening to nonsense from a small but vocal fundamentalist minority, this evening was a breath of fresh air.


 

Nice to see. Who cares if you are 6 or 60, male or female, black or white, gay or straight, this religious or that one? Everyone deserves to be happy. 

 

 


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  # 2267304 30-Jun-2019 13:29
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steve2222:

gzt: Asics has already dropped him as a brand ambassador. Rugby Australia has the same problem.

Edit: this isn't going to be a problem for a normal person on the checkout at pak-an-save because zero brand or marketing responsibilities defined or expected for that.


You think ........ https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/why-was-a-disabled-grandad-sacked-by-asda-for-sharing-a-billy-connolly-clip/


Looks like the fired guy made some comments to co-workers at work who raised the comments with his employer as a problem. Somewhere in there the employer looked at his social media. No detail in that report about the in-person verbal comments which were likely the main reason for action. No detail if the fired guy made the post at work. No detail of any previous warnings. Also no detail of any legal action the fired guy might have taken and lost. Lastly this is UK news not NZ or Aust so it's largely irrelevant to the discussion.

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  # 2267332 30-Jun-2019 15:21
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Looked at a different article. I could have been mistaken about verbal comments preceding the sacking:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7174761/Grandfather-sacked-Asda-sharing-anti-Islamic-Billy-Connolly-sketch-Facebook.html
Some articles describe him as a meet and greeter and some articles describe him as a till operator. According to many articles he did sincerely apologise almost immediately and publicly prior to the employer meeting. He's appealing the termination decision as excessive in the circumstances. UK law + wait and see.

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