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  # 2263421 24-Jun-2019 14:10
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Employers have rights to not have their, and their business partners names dragged through the mud. Now thats over he can continue to use his free speech as representing himself


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  # 2263424 24-Jun-2019 14:16
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tdgeek:

 

My opinion is this. Discrimination is an issue. He has used his free speech. He used it again at a similar level the other day, no issue. He has been exercising his free speech, he has not been arrested. This shows that free speech exists. However, they were also linked to his employer, he passed on his beliefs as a representative of RA, his employer. Thats what happens for those in the public eye. He was warned last year. If he wishes to use his free speech as a citizen of Australia that's fine, there is no issue with that. His employer had the issue. His free speech was there before, it still is, he can go for gold, and is.

 

 

Free speech is not defined as to whether a policeman throws you in prison or not. 

 

One can hardly say they have the right to free speech, if an employer can terminate your right to earn a living because of your individual religious views. Folaus rights to free speech have been well and truly bulldozed!

 

I don't believe in the views of the islam religion either. Does that mean I can refuse to hire muslims who are far more extreme in their views on homosexuality. 

 

I believe Folau has a very strong case when it ends up in court. 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2263426 24-Jun-2019 14:21
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When I was employed by the Government I could not express publicly any preference for a particular party or express political views or views that were contrary to that of my employer in conjunction with my roles or linking to my roles. That did not infringe my freedom of speech rights.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 2263428 24-Jun-2019 14:26
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MikeB4:

 

When I was employed by the Government I could not express publicly any preference for a particular party or express political views or views that were contrary to that of my employer in conjunction with my roles or linking to my roles. That did not infringe my freedom of speech rights.

 

 

Which has absolutely no relevance. 

 

Because

 

A.  Folau has not expressed a political view

 

B. Folau spoke as an individual , not as an employee. 

 

 


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  # 2263430 24-Jun-2019 14:33
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surfisup1000:

 

MikeB4:

 

When I was employed by the Government I could not express publicly any preference for a particular party or express political views or views that were contrary to that of my employer in conjunction with my roles or linking to my roles. That did not infringe my freedom of speech rights.

 

 

Which has absolutely no relevance. 

 

Because

 

A.  Folau has not expressed a political view

 

B. Folau spoke as an individual , not as an employee. 

 

 

 

 

I was not stating he was making political statements, that was purely an example. It is common in contracts for high profile positions such as international sports representatives that they are limited in what they can say and cannot bring his employers in disrepute. He would have been aware of that when he freely signed the employment contract and received payments. He had also been very clearly warned and appraised of his obligations under that agreement. His rights have not been infringed.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 2263431 24-Jun-2019 14:33
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surfisup1000:

 

tdgeek:

 

My opinion is this. Discrimination is an issue. He has used his free speech. He used it again at a similar level the other day, no issue. He has been exercising his free speech, he has not been arrested. This shows that free speech exists. However, they were also linked to his employer, he passed on his beliefs as a representative of RA, his employer. Thats what happens for those in the public eye. He was warned last year. If he wishes to use his free speech as a citizen of Australia that's fine, there is no issue with that. His employer had the issue. His free speech was there before, it still is, he can go for gold, and is.

 

 

Free speech is not defined as to whether a policeman throws you in prison or not. 

 

One can hardly say they have the right to free speech, if an employer can terminate your right to earn a living because of your individual religious views. Folaus rights to free speech have been well and truly bulldozed!

 

I don't believe in the views of the islam religion either. Does that mean I can refuse to hire muslims who are far more extreme in their views on homosexuality. 

 

I believe Folau has a very strong case when it ends up in court. 

 

 

Others including himself have expressed their religious views. Many times. With no issue. He went beyond that, saying he quoted the Bible, which he did not. he stood up, in a high profile manner and conveyed I, Israel Folau representing Rugby Australia and all its sponsors decide that these people will all go to hell. Are employers not allowed rights? If an employee abuses their position as per the code of conduct with the contract? He breached the contract, knowingly, with full knowledge of what will happen. Everyone has rights, or do they not?

 

Most people you hire abide by the contract they sign. Otherwise its in breach


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  # 2263436 24-Jun-2019 14:39
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surfisup1000:

 

MikeB4:

 

When I was employed by the Government I could not express publicly any preference for a particular party or express political views or views that were contrary to that of my employer in conjunction with my roles or linking to my roles. That did not infringe my freedom of speech rights.

 

 

Which has absolutely no relevance. 

 

Because

 

A.  Folau has not expressed a political view

 

B. Folau spoke as an individual , not as an employee. 

 

 

 

 

Mikes example was an example. In that case it was political views. In Folau's case, its views that as per his contract the code of conduct, bring the employer into disrepute. As a highly public figure, you cannot stand behind that he does not represent rugby and Rugby Australia. 

 

This isnt a freedom of speech issue, its an employment issue, as per his employment contract, exactly as Mikes was

 

Or do employers have no rights?


 
 
 
 


gzt

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  # 2263438 24-Jun-2019 14:41
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surfisup1000: One can hardly say they have the right to free speech, if an employer can terminate your right to earn a living because of your individual religious views. Folaus rights to free speech have been well and truly bulldozed!

Imo you will find there is some clause in his well paid playing contract setting out his role as an ambassador for the values of the NRL.

gzt

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  # 2263440 24-Jun-2019 14:47
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I do feel a little sorry for him in the sense I feel it's very likely he can under a lot of pressure from his family to start making these kinds of statements and hold to them.

Folau did participate previous NRL outreach efforts. I'd assume NRL gives players the choice about these things and they can refuse without prejudice:


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  # 2263441 24-Jun-2019 14:51
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gzt:
surfisup1000: One can hardly say they have the right to free speech, if an employer can terminate your right to earn a living because of your individual religious views. Folaus rights to free speech have been well and truly bulldozed!

Imo you will find there is some clause in his well paid playing contract setting out his role as an ambassador for the values of the NRL.

 

Yes, these are the key words. Freedom to sign or not sign. Even when he abused this last year, he was reminded of his obligations. When you now look at everything, it all now makes so much more sense. He has shown himself to be a liar and a user, and greedy. This was orchestrated, from last year to now. Its not about money, I'll walk away, all lies. I feel that he felt his high public profile would insulate him. The other day he ranted the same evil in church, His church, that he and his family run. Did a media crew over hear it? Or were they invited, or were they fed the script? Its not really surprising how and why this all this happened now.


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  # 2263442 24-Jun-2019 14:53
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surfisup1000:

 

Folau's case transcends his own individual interests.  There is public interest in his case. 

 

It is about a persons freedom of speech and right to practice ones religion. 

 

And so what if he is moderately well off? I note the media has disclosed his assets, but not his debt.  Possibly he only owns 1/5 of the asset value.  His legal costs are probably going to exceed 1 million.  If people want to help, that is up to them.  Gofundme are fully entitled to pull their support too.  

 

I think Folaus views are odious, but I support his right to express his religious views.  He has disgraced himself more than anything else.  

 

 

My problem with the free speech argument is when it is used to somehow make hate speech OK because FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

 

He is free to express his views, but he is certainly not free from the consequences of expressing his views. And while saying one group of people deserves to go to an imaginary place seems harmless, at its core it is a another rallying point for the hate spewed by the sort of cesspool of humanity that praised the Christchurch shooter. This isn't a far stretch to "We should kill all [insert race here] because they are different to me and don't deserve to live.". Just another rear-end-in-a-top-hat using his platform (based on his ball-handling skills I might add) to spread his particular brand of hate.

 

Maybe he should just take that bollocks and f*** off to America. I'll happily trade one bigoted, waste of oxygen rugby player for all the LGTBQ+ people who just want a right to love and happiness as much as the rest of us. Certainly a lot of them are more talented than him.

 

 


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  # 2263444 24-Jun-2019 14:54
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gzt: I do feel a little sorry for him in the sense I feel it's very likely he can under a lot of pressure from his family to start making these kinds of statements and hold to them.

Folau did participate previous NRL outreach efforts. I'd assume NRL gives players the choice about these things and they can refuse without prejudice:

 

I had a degree of sympathy. Maybe he got overwhelmed by his religious fervour, and it was another mistake. Not any more. That picture cannot be seen as anything but a lie. You can't support LGBT and also say they belong in hell


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  # 2263445 24-Jun-2019 14:55
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tdgeek:

 

He went beyond that, saying he quoted the Bible, which he did not. he stood up, in a high profile manner and conveyed I, Israel Folau representing Rugby Australia and all its sponsors decide that these people will all go to hell. Are employers not allowed rights? If an employee abuses their position as per the code of conduct with the contract? He breached the contract, knowingly, with full knowledge of what will happen. Everyone has rights, or do they not?

 

Most people you hire abide by the contract they sign. Otherwise its in breach

 

 

You should really get your facts right.  You clearly didn't even read the tweet!!

 

Firstly, he makes no assertion that he represents the views of Rugby Australia. 

 

And, the tweet in question directly quotes the bible,  Galatians 5:19‭-‬21 KJV  ... how on earth can you argue otherwise, when it is right there in the tweet!!

 

This tweet also targets drunks, atheists, idolaters,  amongst others. I'm offended that rugby australia hasn't recognised my right to be offended!  Why is it that only the homosexuals are allowed to be offended?

 

This is a case of people seeking offence. 

 

I bet Folau will win his case. Proving myself right, and you wrong.   Lets meet back after the case concludes and the one who is wrong can apologise to the other :) You'd better prepare it now. 

 

 


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  # 2263457 24-Jun-2019 14:56
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It's not even about his expressing his beliefs, he was previously asked not to express his beliefs online in such a public manner. This is NOT a one-time event.

 

September 2017  - When Aussie passed into Law same-sex marriages, he expressed his disapproval online, contravening the supporting message from his employer of the same law.

April 2018 - He expressed his belief once again this time stating gay people will go to Hell unless they repent. His employer issued a statement against this and Folau deleted the post.

 

April 2019 - Once again he posted an explicit message that "Drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves atheists and idolators*" will go to hell.

 

Allegedly he rejected multiple requests to delete this last message, chosing instead to stand by it.

 

A sporting idol (forbidden by God in the 10 commandments for Goodness sake!!), posting to his idolators reading his very post that they were going to hell.

 

And those same people who idol him, who he said were going to hell are now supporting him?

 

 

 

He had multiple chances to back down, he specifically insulted those who idolised him, make the largest hypocrite of himself, made a mockery of the teachings and very Commandments of God and the bible and directly insulted millions of peoples and still people are supporting him? 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2263459 24-Jun-2019 14:58
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tdgeek: He went beyond that, saying he quoted the Bible, which he did not.

 

If it wasn't a quote then it was pretty close:

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6%3A9-10&version=NIV

 

tdgeek: I, Israel Folau representing Rugby Australia and all its sponsors

 

I have a different interpretation. It seems obvious to me that Folau was expressing a personal view, and not one that his employer or associated sponsors would necessarily agree with. His post had nothing to do with rugby.

 

 


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