Golf - Why is there a drama over DeChambeau winning?

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#2572104 22-Sep-2020 14:36

Senecio: You seem to fixated on his length. A couple of points.

It’s not just 25yds. In the game of golf 25 yards is the difference between me and Usain bolt over 100m. 25yds can take trouble out of play, it’s the difference between hitting a 7-iron into the green and hitting a wedge.

Secondly be careful quoting the stats from the tour. They don’t measure every hole, and they don’t care what club you hit. If Bryson hits a 3-iron on one of the holes being measured that week then that becomes part of his driving statistic. Also they measure total difference. Two players may hit it 330yds but I can assure you the one who can carry it the furthest has a massive advantage over the golfer who gets a lot of run.

For example you mentioned Louis, great golfer who can be deceptively long in the stats. Make no mistake, put Louis and Bryson on the same tee with driver in their hands and Bryson will carry it 60yds further than Louis every day. That’s a massive advantage.

I'm actually fixated on NOT his length, any article or media interview is about his build and his length. They should probabaly discuss Rory and Louis, DJ and Ancer, etc.

Bryson hasnt added anything new to golf. He's not the longest. If he was 50 yards longer than anyone else, then yes, but he isn't, he's not the longest. Thats my point. While some may feel he got lucky and Woolf has bad luck, DeC IMO had the better overall package, length being ONE of many factors. yes 25 yards is an advantage, DJ knows that he gets it every week

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#2572205 22-Sep-2020 16:21

and then he announces this, it's beginning to be a joke . Golf is not about how far you can hit it off the tee but it is beginning to be.

https://www.golfmagic.com/golf-news/bryson-dechambeau-confirms-he-will-test-48-inch-cobra-driver

Common sense is not as common as you think.

Brunzy

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#2572218 22-Sep-2020 17:14

On the measured holes he was 325 /19th
His longest drive was 385 which was 13th. These stats are from the PGA tour app.
More importantly , he had only 11 bogeys and no doubles all week ( 1st)

BlinkyBill

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#2572286 22-Sep-2020 17:58

TDGeek conflates power to length. Yes, they are closely related, but in the case of DeC what he has done is go all-out on exploiting his max power to hit it as far as he possibly can, straight. This is at the expense of shape and playability (I’m talking about the woods and longer irons). There is no doubt he swings hard every time.

He had to do this - he wasn’t going anywhere with his mechanical game unless he could find a way to hit it further. The more natural hitters get more length but with less power, AND they can shape the ball.

At this US Open, I contend the power game helped DeC from the rough more than every other contender, he putted magnificently (albeit awkwardly) and those two factors gave him the win. I admit I didn’t watch the tournament too closely.

If the R&A banned long handle putters, DeC would lose quite a few strokes - his putting action relies on locking the left arm. On courses requiring shaping of the ball, I predict DeC will be well down in the standings.

Having said all of this, he won under the rules; and it’s a great achievement - no-one on this forum would have a clue how good these guys are.

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#2572306 22-Sep-2020 18:40

BlinkyBill:

TDGeek conflates power to length. Yes, they are closely related, but in the case of DeC what he has done is go all-out on exploiting his max power to hit it as far as he possibly can, straight. This is at the expense of shape and playability (I’m talking about the woods and longer irons). There is no doubt he swings hard every time.

He had to do this - he wasn’t going anywhere with his mechanical game unless he could find a way to hit it further. The more natural hitters get more length but with less power, AND they can shape the ball.

At this US Open, I contend the power game helped DeC from the rough more than every other contender, he putted magnificently (albeit awkwardly) and those two factors gave him the win. I admit I didn’t watch the tournament too closely.

If the R&A banned long handle putters, DeC would lose quite a few strokes - his putting action relies on locking the left arm. On courses requiring shaping of the ball, I predict DeC will be well down in the standings.

Having said all of this, he won under the rules; and it’s a great achievement - no-one on this forum would have a clue how good these guys are.

I conflate power to length, in what way? Genuine question.

Remember, he is not the longest hitter despite how the media go after his "transformation" His previous game was good. I can't recall the details, but I read earlier today that he did win quite a few of his previous 6 wins or top 5/10's in an 8 month period.

Yes, the more natural hitters get more length, Im thinking DJ and Rory and Matt Woolf. What do you do? Ok I'm good so Ill accept being good and leave it at that? He went after a few things, length was just one. Short game, putting. So he added 25 yards. He went after his short game based on his style being ill hit it as far as I can and accept scrambling. It works. Over 72 holes, without being the longest driver, he was the only guy that finished under par. Thats not a lucky day. What my thread is about is that he is not all about the longest drive, he's about all his game, the effort he puts in, and the drive is one part, thats what impresses me. I only started this thread as the media seems to think its not fair, but he ISNT the longest driver. Thats my only point.

I think he was No.3 in length, number 2 in scrambling. IMHO if anyone wants to go after bombers, they existed before DeC "transformed" he transformed himself to be "A" long hitter. He improved his short game to match the rough play. His putting is magic. Overall, he beat the golf course, the only one that did, its NOT about his power for length its about his WHOLE game

If Rory or DJ won, its about their whole game, even though they get more yards than DeC. DeC wins it seems all about his protein shakes and how can US Golf regulate that.

tdgeek

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#2572308 22-Sep-2020 18:45

I dont want this to be an I like or dont like him. I watched a lot of the post match, Im impressed by what he has put into his game, and that's not just the drives. All elite athletes do that, but his effort seems to have struck a few chords. Im still miffed that Rory more or less stated its not fair. He hits it further lol

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#2572314 22-Sep-2020 18:54

It's pretty simple, he's using a putting technique that many frown upon (I have the yips, so used a belly putter until it was banned, now I mostly just cry), hits it as long as he can. But he has hit some outrageous tee shots.

I think it's pretty simple, I'm all for bifurcation, I'll be furious if the ruling bodies make another rule change to reign in the less 1% who play the game for a living, at the expense of those who have handicaps and play every week for a pint with their friends.

Slow ball for professional golf, perhaps 40 compression.

Get rid of rough, make the fairways super wide, make a decision on putting, IE reverse the anchor ban and accept long putters (which have been around a lot longer than people think).

A slow ball is the simplest, don't have to change clubs. As many have already pointed out on this thread, fairways are largely irrelevant if you can hit it far enough, and are strong enough to get it out. It was a good point above about a wedge out of the rough trumps a five iron every time.

And Bryson is extremely slow, even by professional standards. I've caddied in a few professional events, and they walk extremely fast between shots and their rounds still take a long time. The problem is policing it. Realistically they probably need a clock on each player, all the time, then penalize them with strokes rather than cash.

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#2572470 23-Sep-2020 06:49

mudguard:

It's pretty simple, he's using a putting technique that many frown upon (I have the yips, so used a belly putter until it was banned, now I mostly just cry), hits it as long as he can. But he has hit some outrageous tee shots.

I think it's pretty simple, I'm all for bifurcation, I'll be furious if the ruling bodies make another rule change to reign in the less 1% who play the game for a living, at the expense of those who have handicaps and play every week for a pint with their friends.

Slow ball for professional golf, perhaps 40 compression.

Get rid of rough, make the fairways super wide, make a decision on putting, IE reverse the anchor ban and accept long putters (which have been around a lot longer than people think).

A slow ball is the simplest, don't have to change clubs. As many have already pointed out on this thread, fairways are largely irrelevant if you can hit it far enough, and are strong enough to get it out. It was a good point above about a wedge out of the rough trumps a five iron every time.

And Bryson is extremely slow, even by professional standards. I've caddied in a few professional events, and they walk extremely fast between shots and their rounds still take a long time. The problem is policing it. Realistically they probably need a clock on each player, all the time, then penalize them with strokes rather than cash.

A shot clock as in tennis would help. A slow ball would still have long hitters hitting the longest. He raised his length by 25 yards, would you rather be 25 yards ahead in deep rough or 25 yards shorter on the fairway? Id take the latter. In the Open I gave him no show as he sprays it, but as it happened, MANY players had poor fairways hit stats, so as many ended up in the rough, his adeptness getting out was an advantage for that match. On another day, normal fairways he will still spray it, and he will be at a disadvantage as others will be hitting 75% of the 14 fairways. If he does improve his accuracy, then he is no better off than Rory and DJ and Woolf who hit it as far or farther, so IMHO the newsworthiness of DeC is overrated. End off the day, the best combo of fairways, greens in regulation, scrambling will do well, course dependent.

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#2572519 23-Sep-2020 09:03

mudguard

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#2573397 24-Sep-2020 11:39

A slow ball would still have long hitters hitting the longest.

The slow ball would be to preserve the existing golf courses, rather than reign in long hitters over the rest of the field.

He raised his length by 25 yards, would you rather be 25 yards ahead in deep rough or 25 yards shorter on the fairway? Id take the latter.

Normally, so would I. Hitting hundreds of balls on radar my absolute max carry is 240m. If I could have another 20m what would that do to my game?

End off the day, the best combo of fairways, greens in regulation, scrambling will do well, course dependent.

Bryson is showing fairways no longer matter if you're long enough. Greens in reg have always been the most important stat in golf, for high handicappers, and for low. No one gets good by missing greens. That said, this is the lowest number of fairways hit in a winning US Open since 1981. The only difference I see here is I think most professional golfers hit driver at about 90% as it's been drummed into them that they need to hit it straight. I think more and more will start going at it 100% ala Bryson. The average length driver shaft on tour is shorter than amateurs. I have mine at 44", at my most recent driver fitting we tested my old driver first, which I hit well, then the new driver head on my old shaft, hit that well, then we put the new shaft in and the fitter said, oh great, ball and club speed have gone up. I said no shart, this is 1.5" longer than my current shaft, I'll hit it sideways! So never used the new shaft, put it in my old driver and sold it.

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#2573450 24-Sep-2020 12:14

mudguard:

He raised his length by 25 yards, would you rather be 25 yards ahead in deep rough or 25 yards shorter on the fairway? Id take the latter.

Normally, so would I. Hitting hundreds of balls on radar my absolute max carry is 240m. If I could have another 20m what would that do to my game?

End off the day, the best combo of fairways, greens in regulation, scrambling will do well, course dependent.

Bryson is showing fairways no longer matter if you're long enough. Greens in reg have always been the most important stat in golf, for high handicappers, and for low. No one gets good by missing greens. That said, this is the lowest number of fairways hit in a winning US Open since 1981. The only difference I see here is I think most professional golfers hit driver at about 90% as it's been drummed into them that they need to hit it straight. I think more and more will start going at it 100% ala Bryson. The average length driver shaft on tour is shorter than amateurs. I have mine at 44", at my most recent driver fitting we tested my old driver first, which I hit well, then the new driver head on my old shaft, hit that well, then we put the new shaft in and the fitter said, oh great, ball and club speed have gone up. I said no shart, this is 1.5" longer than my current shaft, I'll hit it sideways! So never used the new shaft, put it in my old driver and sold it.

Another 20m would improve your game, depending how you sprayed it at maximum output

But as per my opening post whats all this got to do with Bryson? The long hitter issue aka bombers existed well before him and hes not the longest hitter, thats my sole point.

There is an issue in golf, distance has grown, but Bryson DeC isnt the author of that. Neither is bionic arms, nor golfers that look like Arnie Schwarzenegger. Tiger took golf to a sport of athletes. The number of long hitters now, are just athletes, none are ripped, technology is a big help as is the various techniques. Its a topic about the many bombers not DeC, but many see its about DeC

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#2573457 24-Sep-2020 12:30

Quote “Greens in reg have always been the most important stat in golf, for high handicappers, and for low. No one gets good by missing greens “

Most of the time I’d agree with that, certainly on my home course it would. But you’d have to qualify that for instance on Winged foot & others. Miss it in the wrong place on the green & its got 3/4 putt written all over it , whereas you may chip it closer.
There were a number of players who chipped from on the green to take out slopes etc , imho a good chipper would score better than an average putter who hit a lot of GIR on that course the way it was setup.

mudguard

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#2573461 24-Sep-2020 12:37

tdgeek:

But as per my opening post whats all this got to do with Bryson? The long hitter issue aka bombers existed well before him and hes not the longest hitter, thats my sole point.

He is the longest on tour now. Over the past 60-70 rounds (2020) he is at 322.1 over Cameron Champ by erm, 0.1 of a yard? And again, no one cares about this stuff until someone wins. Like the long putter. No one cared as it was mainly seen on the Senior Tour. Then Adam Scott and Keegan Bradley win majors with the Broom and the Belly and all of sudden it needs changing.

My personal opinion is I don't care what they do on tour. I care what they do for the rest of us regarding rules. My only preference is to see certain courses remain in the playing rota, like The Old Course and Carnoustie etc. I watch very little golf on TV outside of the majors, I don't buy my equipment based on what pros use. If the ruling bodies decide distance is an issue, then bifurcate and leave us alone.

Bryson if anything will force some kind of speed of play ruling.

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#2573470 24-Sep-2020 13:01

Ive read a few stats, they vary a bit, hes always thereabouts, depends what you read. Finau is the longest many say, but in any case there are a bunch of them. DJ, Rory, DeC, Finau, Woolf, Champ to name a few.

Take tennis, power matters as does accuracy, like golf, Tall players, solid players, slight players (Federer), short players (Wawrinka), fast servers slow servers (Djokovic) , it all works for them. The long hitting golfers aren't built like supreme athletes, nothing like it, to me, length is how the game has developed, better clubs, better training, and better technique, there are no freaks out there. Finau is slightly built, and Woolf is average and not tall (but hes very strong) Oosthuizen was 3rd in the Open, tiny guy, not young. Bit like big servers, they spray it too. I don't think anything will happen, golf wise. Thicker rough? Well that encourages more practice in rough (which is what Bryson did after tralking to Mickelson in a practice round) Good on him. If ist think rough what do you do? Learn it. It all seems normal to me.

Maybe they could red line fairways in tour events? max hitting distance is 320 yards, if over that bring it back. Seems an easy fix with no loopholes or messing with courses

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#2573512 24-Sep-2020 13:48

tdgeek:

Maybe they could red line fairways in tour events? max hitting distance is 320 yards, if over that bring it back. Seems an easy fix with no loopholes or messing with courses

I'm not sure what you mean? Make everything outside the fairway a penalty area?

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