Formula 1 2021 Season Discussion

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#2825253 6-Dec-2021 19:54

Benoire: Engine mode is locked in at the start of quali I believe and it cannot be changed during the rest of the event. This does allow more power from an engine to be changed for each race but you can't now change it on the fly.

Good to know. As its now a title race of 1, and not over 20 races, I guess anything goes.

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Benoire

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#2825272 6-Dec-2021 20:23

Yep but it also depends on how much stress the existing engines can take. The Merc is faster but degrades more, the honda slower but degrades less so after each full cycle it probably has more power than the merc... but the merc has an extra engine. The Merc chassis currently favours high speeds and slow speed corners, the redbull is better on medium or continous tight high speed corners. Yas Marina is a high speed long straights with quite a few slow speed corners and the occaision medium speed. IF the merc engine is still in good shape then it is likely to have more power avaialble than the Honda due to its limited running, i.e. 2 circuits so far.

wratterus

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#2825288 6-Dec-2021 21:01

Think the 'right' result on pace was reached in the end. Verstappen should have been on pole had he not muffed that last corner in quali, but it almost certainly wouldn't have made a difference. I was saying when watching the practices that this was going to be a next level race with how fast & tight the track was....didn't have anything like that in mind though!

Would love to know what Verstappen was thinking when letting Lewis past that first time...wonder if he was just annoyed that Lewis was mucking about and not passing (waiting for DRS detection zone I suppose) and punched the brakes out of frustration? I can't imagine him deliberately trying to get rear ended - it's amazing he didn't cop a puncture or any damage from that.

The whole setup was a pretty amazing spectacle though.

Don't think RB can possibly beat Merc at Yas Marina on pace. Looking at the changes that have been made it looks to me like they may possibly benefit Merc a little, but hard to say - they have dominated there forever other than last year.

Maybe it's time to release the Tsunoda next weekend. 😬

If someone had written a script for what has happened this season, you'd think they were having a laugh.

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#2825292 6-Dec-2021 21:08

Benoire: Engine mode is locked in at the start of quali I believe and it cannot be changed during the rest of the event. This does allow more power from an engine to be changed for each race but you can't now change it on the fly.

That's ICE engine mode though, there still appears to be strat modes than must adjust MGU regen and battery deployment characteristics.

Wonder if that includes boost pressures...i.e what settings are in a engine mode? Fuel, Air, Valve Timing / lift, Fuel pressure, fuel spray sequence and pattern, max rpm, waste gate pressure, oil / water pump operation?

I'd really love to see Zero coaching throughout the race, no messages or coded ones either. Knowing how to manage your car is a skill. Having you engineer remind you to use Strat 4 etc while entering pits or joining the start is dumb.

insane

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#2825295 6-Dec-2021 21:14

wratterus:
Maybe it's time to release the Tsunoda next weekend. 😬

See now if RB brought in Kvyat for the final race. Only thing to top that would be Rosberg :D

Merc boys would be spitting tacks.

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#2825296 6-Dec-2021 21:16

insane:
Benoire: Engine mode is locked in at the start of quali I believe and it cannot be changed during the rest of the event. This does allow more power from an engine to be changed for each race but you can't now change it on the fly.

That's ICE engine mode though, there still appears to be strat modes than must adjust MGU regen and battery deployment characteristics.

Wonder if that includes boost pressures...i.e what settings are in a engine mode? Fuel, Air, Valve Timing / lift, Fuel pressure, fuel spray sequence and pattern, max rpm, waste gate pressure, oil / water pump operation?

I'd really love to see Zero coaching throughout the race, no messages or coded ones either. Knowing how to manage your car is a skill. Having you engineer remind you to use Strat 4 etc while entering pits or joining the start is dumb.

Yeah there is still the ability to change harvesting of battery power, release positions etc. but the main thing was the 'party modes' was a massive ICE remap that really pushed the boundaries of the engine power coupled with the MGU-K at the detrminent of engine life. I think turbo/ICE is static though for each race.

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#2825359 6-Dec-2021 21:39

insane:
wratterus:

Maybe it's time to release the Tsunoda next weekend. 😬

See now if RB brought in Kvyat for the final race. Only thing to top that would be Rosberg :D

Merc boys would be spitting tacks.

having thought about it, too late i think. they needed to crash them out this race with walls and everything. yas marina is so open there is nowhere to crash into.

but in all seriousness, game over.

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#2825392 6-Dec-2021 22:15

Batman:
..having thought about it, too late i think. they needed to crash them out this race with walls and everything. yas marina is so open there is nowhere to crash into.

but in all seriousness, game over.

It's not over until turn 1 :)

But yeah the odds seem to have it going to Lewis 4/6. Vs 1/2 for Max. Those are probably the same odds for keeping their cool in general over the weekend.

tdgeek

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#2825398 6-Dec-2021 22:27

wratterus:

Think the 'right' result on pace was reached in the end. Verstappen should have been on pole had he not muffed that last corner in quali

Ive seen many quali's when Max is surprisingly competitive at a Mercedes track. Lewis comes out and is too fast, engine mode, party mode, hence my earlier post.

RBR can hang with Merc if the ducks line up, but Merc just gets another duck.

Take this race. I knew the winner but not the result. If Max is behind, game over, cant keep up. In front, tow and DRS is easy, as Brundle commented. Yas will be the same. But thats ok, its been quite the run for a low top speed car for the season. Many races these two are well clear, I think recently one was two pitstops clear. Last quite a drive from Max

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#2825401 6-Dec-2021 22:38

insane:

It's not over until turn 1 :)

But yeah the odds seem to have it going to Lewis 4/6. Vs 1/2 for Max. Those are probably the same odds for keeping their cool in general over the weekend.

He's biased as lol. I dont understand betting odds, apart form $ ones, but all being equal its a power track, game over, the faster car wins. (Note I said car)

RBR might as per my party mode post, go that way. Otherwise with a speed deficit a really good day is 2nd. So max the engine for a few extra horses. But sandbag it. Trim rear wing a little. Maybe accept no pole and strategise around the following laps as Max is better at passing than Lewis. Setup for the key parts of the track.Its been a common them that one car is better in one area and the other, better in another area, that was quite stark at Jeddah. Pole, turn 1, tyres? Id favour a strategy based on key turns and build the race around that. Otherwise the standard get the car as ready as you can, means 2nd place.

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#2825408 6-Dec-2021 22:54

Yeah I bet by now they know how to determine what trim level to run for the fastest possible way around the course, for their car and their rivals. Horner implied that after the race when he said they didn't us the skinniest wing they had to choose from so there is still some straight line speed to be found.

The Merc is kinder on the tyres, so RB can't run too skinny or they'll slide around too much.

Only a few more days to find out 🙂

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#2825412 6-Dec-2021 23:01

insane: Yeah I bet by now they know how to determine what trim level to run for the fastest possible way around the course, for their car and their rivals. Horner implied that after the race when he said they didn't us the skinniest wing they had to choose from so there is still some straight line speed to be found.

The Merc is kinder on the tyres, so RB can't run too skinny or they'll slide around too much.

Only a few more days to find out 🙂

Yep. RBR has more mechanical grip, so yes use the wing and FP's to get the balance between speed and handing nailed. But they do need to wind up the engine when needed. If it blows it blows. Its not like they run it a lot, use it as a higher wear/risk passing mode. Merc ran that strategy all year, hence lower engine life. Change an engine and start 5 places back was an easy strategy. The places got picked up quickly. Lots of options when you are faster. With Honda staying on board in 2022 could be fun.

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#2825415 6-Dec-2021 23:09

tdgeek:

Yep. RBR has more mechanical grip, so yes use the wing and FP's to get the balance between speed and handing nailed. But they do need to wind up the engine when needed. If it blows it blows. Its not like they run it a lot, use it as a higher wear/risk passing mode. Merc ran that strategy all year, hence lower engine life. Change an engine and start 5 places back was an easy strategy. The places got picked up quickly. Lots of options when you are faster. With Honda staying on board in 2022 could be fun.

I understand that the Merc issues was as a result of the 2019 Ferarri battle when they focused on power for 2020 at the expense of durability as they couldn't match the Ferarri engine but by the time it was realised that they had been not quite playing by the rules the engine changes where set. Merc haven't run a party mode for most of the season and have appeared to have been worried by the PU quite early on and haven't run them as hard, but they still suffer. I would expect with the suspension 'trick' that the merc chassis has along with the engine performance and high speed nature of the circuit it should favour Merc but then there where a number of tracks this year where this ahs been the case since 2014 and it turned out it wasn't. The changes to the rear of the floor really affected the low rake cars (merc and aston) hence why they haven't been as fast in the fast twisty corners as they used to be.

I wonder whether Merc will opt for a new engine as well as for Yas? its straights are long enough to probably make up the 5 places they need, and if RB did it as well then Merc would be faster... lots of tactics. I just want clean racing and I cannot see Max doing that, he has a history (prior to today) of not racing fair including some pretty impressive moving on the straights (2016 baku with danny ric, spa with raikonnen etc.).

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#2825419 6-Dec-2021 23:48

Benoire:

I wonder whether Merc will opt for a new engine as well as for Yas? its straights are long enough to probably make up the 5 places they need, and if RB did it as well then Merc would be faster... lots of tactics. I just want clean racing and I cannot see Max doing that, he has a history (prior to today) of not racing fair including some pretty impressive moving on the straights (2016 baku with danny ric, spa with raikonnen etc.).

Yes, if Merc take another engine, which I think is a great tactic, unbeatable, more so than they are right now there. RBR can do the same, and use a higher mode when needed.

Dont really agree re Max. Ive seen Vettel be the error ridden driver with a bad rep. And others. Max was the same when new, but he's matured. He's fast and he's accurate. Re passing Lewis was impressive this race, and he's passed well a lot. Both of them this race took it to the edge, and past it at times.Id rather see hard racing where inevitably with a title on the line they can make an error, or be too brazen, they can deal wth any penalties or the damage potential. We see so much more terrible driving in any given year by other drivers, so yesterday was man vs man, so I was ok with it. Both these drivers have had brain fade moments this year, but you get that when it's tight. Any of the top part of the grid if it was a close title fight like this, these incidents would be the same IMHO. We have had years of Merc, RBR, and Ferrari aka Hamilton, Vettel and Schumacher. I nodded off a LOT watching many of them. The previous generation when it got tight saw tight racing and incidents. As long as its not a professional foul, they can pay the grid penalty, or lost places at the chequered flag. Thats the balance they can work out themselves.

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#2825481 7-Dec-2021 06:37

tdgeek:
Batman:

Hamilton deserves every thing he has achieved. I know he will definitely get 8 titles. I predicted that with 3 races to go. I just thought sometimes the race weekend was boring because they were always foregone conclusion with little action.

I am not sure Max should win anything this year after this morning. As I said he's just too immature.

Also if Hamilton wants to win 10 championships I believe he can. The only thing stopping him is him, and maybe his car, but that's only a maybe.

When I typed the original post I actually didn't realise Max brake checked Hamilton! I had to see the replay of the incident and it was definitely a brake check. Not an attempt to give back the position. I have striked out the post now.

1.As did every one else when you look at the track types.

2. So you don't like hard racing, well they both raced hard and they both went too far at times

3. Brake checked, depends on the scenario. Max was told to let him pass, he remained in the middle of the track, room either side, he slowed. Thats no problem as Lewis will know Max is letting him past, choose a side and do it, but he drive into him, as he wasn't told. Thats not Mx'e fault if Lewis wasn't aware of letting him pass. Plus both dont want to pass so they are disadvantaged by the DRS line. But yeah Ill brake so that Lewis crashes our cars, yeah, nah.

But yeah, i guess your governed by who you are the fan of, and while Brundle is a Hamilton fan, he criticised both. Who got warned about poor sportsmanship???

I was cheering for max until yesterday now I'm cheering for Bottas. Who I cheer for does not affect who wins. I quite like Bottas to give the finger to Merc and win the last race aa that shouldn't affect the Max Lewis battle but he's such a number 2 guy he won't dare. As for cheering for world title, I'm not fussed. If max is ahead of Lewis he deserves the title. If Lewis is ahead of Max he deserves the title. That's how life works. Nobody congratulates a janitor for making it despite being born homeless, nobody mocks Prince William for being born with a silver spoon in his mouth that was mined by the janitor's father. Live is not fair. That's why we donate. Who ever has more points deserves the title and its remembered forever and who first loser is forgotten the next day.

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