Formula 1 2023 Season Discussion

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#3123390 3-Sep-2023 18:35

hairy1:

Yuki is in his third season of F1. Liam is in his third day... He is punching well above his weight. Bringing it home at the Dutch Grand Prix was pretty amazing considering the conditions.

Biased from you and me, yes. Reality, it was stellar. Im hoping he gets the next race. Its good to be stellar (given a last minute jump in the seat) and solid and reliable, but he will need to push the boundary at some point. Being solid in F1 wont cut it, so lets say he has another race, punch above the weight this race and push on, without being reckless (easy to say from my couch)

Perez is going backwards, and thats not a Liam bias, he is. Danny Ricc is great but McLaren found him out. Like Mercedes, George is the future, IMHO Liam is for RBR, young quick and solid with it. Issues can and will happen but Liam is on the up

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#3123395 3-Sep-2023 19:29

Yep. Completely biased... I feel a bit like a soccer hooligan.... 😬

I have really enjoyed F1 this season however have felt a bit like an interested bystander.

With a kiwi now in the mix I am way more invested.

My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

nzkc

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#3123396 3-Sep-2023 19:35

If Lawson manages to score a point tonight he is going to make it very hard for Red Bull to leave him out of F1! And will really ramp up the pressure on Ricciardo. Could probably give Lawson a third drive especially if Ricciardo is still a bit 50/50.

Jaxson

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#3123415 3-Sep-2023 23:24

DR was huge $ value at red bull and was doing well at Renault too.
The move to McLaren raised serious questions about how committed he would be though (labelled a flight risk) and it got even worse when he couldn’t make it work in their car either.

The McLaren car was a piece of crap those years and it mentally stuffed his driving ability.
Red Bull did see enough of a return to form in testing though to bring him back into the fold.

GV27

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#3123428 4-Sep-2023 06:38

I feel like Hamilton has gotten off extremely lightly for another wheel-to-wheel incident today. He spent more time off track during the incident than he was penalised for it.

tdgeek

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#3123449 4-Sep-2023 09:13

Another stellar race for Liam. Held his ground well with better cars around him, passed a few. AT can't realistically get much above 11th on merit, so a good solid drive

Appears Danny Ricc is out for Singapore and highly unlikely for Japan so 2 more races. In FP sessions Liam was generally 5 to 6/10's behind Tsunoda, that closed over the sesisons to about 3/10, sometimes a little less, and only a little over a tenth behind in quali. How much would you allow for his lack of race experience compared to Tsunoda? 3/10?

Also, I thought Danny Ricc rejoined the Red Bull Family, but apparently he is only on loan for the rest of this season. I get the talk about him, personality etc etc, but a big smile doesnt won races. He did not want to race Max so he left. Was terrible at McLaren and I can't see why that was. Pro driver, you adapt to a poor car, but he was very very poor. I like him a lot but of he is that delicate to need a car that suits huis style, that's not good enough.

Permutations:

They retain the same lineup for 2024 to see if Perez will up his game, and if Danny Ricc totally dominates Tsunoda in which case he takes over Perez seat and Liam starts in AT in 2025
Move Danny Ricc to the main team and pair Perez with Lawson. Tsunoda is not bad but his level is now known. Solid but not a future prospect. See how Liam goes with Perez
Remove Perez or Tsunoda at any old time and Liam jumpos in somewhere. Dr Marko is not shy to dump a driver without notice

tdgeek

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#3123450 4-Sep-2023 09:18

GV27:

I feel like Hamilton has gotten off extremely lightly for another wheel-to-wheel incident today. He spent more time off track during the incident than he was penalised for it.

Agree. Perhaps a fairer penalty is 5 seconds behind Piastri, whosse race was ruined.

Was it Russell that had a similar issue, penalised 5 seconds? But thats ok, he gained more than that from the illegal pass

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Jaxson

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#3123509 4-Sep-2023 13:27

Another one of those mega qualifying battles that again is pointless in the race as Max passes easily quickly. 11 in a row now is now in epic predicktability territory sadly.

Yeah seeing a lot of comments around a position penalty and I quite like that approach.
Forced to fall back behind the car you are deemed to have impeded, where ever they may now be on the track.

Assume if you fully take someone fully out and they need to retire then you what? Drop to the bottom of the pack or get a 2 car back position penalty etc?

Also re LL at AlphaT I heard a story recently that red bull could be looking to share much more with that sister team, meaning it’s very likely to get a leg up compared to its current form. Hopefully a viable mid to front team if LL gets a ride there.

Has been really interesting this season to see teams show significant progress at times and then bottom out/others catch up or they lose their way. Astin and possibly McLaren fall into this bracket. McLaren made a huge leap but last few outings have not looked like taking P3/P4 anymore.

thermonuclear

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#3123654 4-Sep-2023 19:42

tdgeek:

Permutations:

They retain the same lineup for 2024 to see if Perez will up his game, and if Danny Ricc totally dominates Tsunoda in which case he takes over Perez seat and Liam starts in AT in 2025
Move Danny Ricc to the main team and pair Perez with Lawson. Tsunoda is not bad but his level is now known. Solid but not a future prospect. See how Liam goes with Perez
Remove Perez or Tsunoda at any old time and Liam jumpos in somewhere. Dr Marko is not shy to dump a driver without notice

Some interesting scenarios. I personally don't believe they will move either Perez or Tsunoda on, notwithstanding their form absolutely falling off a cliff. Yuki in particular has had a pretty solid season in a very unhelpful car, getting absolutely everything out a poor drive and certainly a lot better than the three points he has to show for it this year. Many of the pundits really rate the season he is having.

Don't disagree that Lawson is making steady progress versus Tsunoda, including just beating him by a 1000th in FP3 at Monza. The room for continued improvement is definitely there. I also agree that Lawson is odds-on to get both the Singapore and Suzuka drives before Ricciardo is ready to come back.

As a patriotic Kiwi, I am concerned Lawson will be solid but no more in these races. Once he drives at Singapore, his ability to do FP1's as a "junior" will cease and, if he doesn't secure a permanent seat for 2024 somewhere, his chance at an F1 career may diminish.

A couple of further scenarios I quite like the sound of:-

1/. Stroll retires and Yuki goes to Aston Martin as a Honda-supported drive. Liam gets the empty AT/Hugo Boss seat.

2/. Williams drops Sargeant and Liam goes there to partner Albon next season. Albon goes back to Red Bull in 2025 to replace Perez. Williams are on the rise and I do rate Vowles as a Team Principal, that would be a great result for Lawson and gets him away from the whims of Marko.

tdgeek

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#3123707 5-Sep-2023 09:06

thermonuclear:

2/. Williams drops Sargeant and Liam goes there to partner Albon next season. Albon goes back to Red Bull in 2025 to replace Perez. Williams are on the rise and I do rate Vowles as a Team Principal, that would be a great result for Lawson and gets him away from the whims of Marko.

Liking that one. They can loan Liam to go anywhere pretty much. Williams would be excellent

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#3123794 5-Sep-2023 11:33

Williams are struggling financially but they’re a much better environment than the likes of hASS who appear toxic and ruined Mick Schumachers entry into F1

PolicyGuy

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#3125641 10-Sep-2023 16:14

It looks like Liam Lawson will get at least two more F1 races this season:

Red Bull motorsport advisor Helmut ... Marko has confirmed comments made by Red Bull Team Principal Christian Horner that asserted (Ricciardo) was unlikely to return before the Qatar Grand Prix in October.
When asked by ServusTV for a timescale on Ricciardo’s absence, Marko said: "Unfortunately, it’s a fairly complicated fracture.
The assumption is six weeks, and we don’t want to take any risks with that. Luckily we have found a great replacement in Liam Lawson.
I expect (Ricciardo) to be able to race again in Qatar at the earliest. Singapore and Suzuka are especially two races that are the most difficult for the hand.”

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/09/09/marko-things-can-move-quickly-with-lawson-2024-f1-chances/

thermonuclear

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#3125703 10-Sep-2023 23:00

While we wait for Singapore, Liam and Alex Albon showing some enthusiastic amateurs how it's done around the Nordschleife. Potential teammates again in 2024 perhaps.