Formula 1 2025 Season Discussion

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Ultimate Geek

#3358072 27-Mar-2025 23:32

Lawson drove the RB20 at Silverstone last year to within 2/10ths of Verstappen's during the same test session, and now he can't get the RB21 from off the bottom of the grid. The problem isn't the driver.

Liam has to react to this the same way he did when he was told at Singapore he wasn't going to get a seat in 2024. He needs to channel the anger, the disappointment, the embarrassment, and whatever else he is feeling and drive the RB to a big points haul at Suzuka. Make a statement. He knows the track as well as any he has ever driven at, this is his time.

Hope he gets the concession of being paired with Hamelin again after the dirty Red Bull have done to him. He works really well with him.

Just checked the Red Bull Racing merch store, all the publicity shots of Liam have been taken down and the four shirts with his race number on that were available for pre-order earlier today are gone without trace. Should have known that they really didn't have any confidence in him when they didn't make merchandise available at the start of the season as they did with Verstappen.

Saw that the case against Horner by his former PA is going to trial in early 2026, think Christian is going to have a very uncomfortable next twelve months all things considered. Hope his CV is up to date.

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GV27

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#3358080 28-Mar-2025 06:19

Probably a positive move for Lawson. All he has to do is put the car in Q2 (ideally Q3 but only really a pressure point if Hadjar does).

Yuki on the other hand also gets a free crack. If he's 20th it's the car. The only way he can get it wrong is by walling it.

I think he should get the seat for the year even if he can't do better than Liam but I also think the F1 press either have to drag him from the 2nd practice session if he's not on the pace or start apologising to Liam, who seems to have paid the price for NZ not having a significant enough F1 press contingent to drown out the tabloid coverage that passes for English-speaking F1 media these days.

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#3358082 28-Mar-2025 07:16

It's confirmed

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GrLyzIwRj4I

JPNZ

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#3358098 28-Mar-2025 09:19

Interesting times ahead at RBR

"Max Verstappen has “liked” an Instagram post from former Formula One driver Giedo van der Garde accusing Red Bull of “bullying” Liam Lawson. It came after the New Zealander’s demotion to Racing Bulls was confirmed by Red Bull on Thursday.

Verstappen, the four-time world champion, is understood to be unhappy about Lawson’s treatment, arguing the 23-year-old ought to have been given more than two races to prove himself.

The Dutch driver’s actions raise further questions about his relationship with the Milton Keynes-based team after serious tensions arose last year following allegations from a female employee aimed at team principal Christian Horner."

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#3358124 28-Mar-2025 09:43

I'd like to see Yuki fail spectacularly. Not out of malice aimed at the driver, but to show the team just how poorly they've treated their drivers.

I'd also like to see Lawson do very well, right from the get-go, then pick up a contract with another team next season and smash RB with his new drive, but that's a pipe dream, I feel.

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tdgeek

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#3358125 28-Mar-2025 09:43

GV27:

Probably a positive move for Lawson. All he has to do is put the car in Q2 (ideally Q3 but only really a pressure point if Hadjar does).

Yuki on the other hand also gets a free crack. If he's 20th it's the car. The only way he can get it wrong is by walling it.

I think he should get the seat for the year even if he can't do better than Liam but I also think the F1 press either have to drag him from the 2nd practice session if he's not on the pace or start apologising to Liam, who seems to have paid the price for NZ not having a significant enough F1 press contingent to drown out the tabloid coverage that passes for English-speaking F1 media these days.

I think so too. Him and Yuki are close, RB is a points scoring car

Watched a few YT's last night, all pro Liam and anti Red Bull, and many of them wanted Yuki in the seat instead of Liam pre season

Yuki will be under a lot of pressure. He hasn't had the time in the RB21, he must realise the car is a real problem looking at how Max, Sergio and Liam went. Home race. Honda expectations. And the real possibility that Liam out quali's and out races him. He could surprise, but the metrics don't indicate that

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#3358126 28-Mar-2025 09:47

Handsomedan:

I'd like to see Yuki fail spectacularly. Not out of malice aimed at the driver, but to show the team just how poorly they've treated their drivers.

I'd also like to see Lawson do very well, right from the get-go, then pick up a contract with another team next season and smash RB with his new drive, but that's a pipe dream, I feel.

+1 to both

RBR have run out of drivers, they only have rookies to partner Max (assuming Yuki can't measure up) That leaves Sergio or Sainz, dunno if either would go there, they might if available. Liam replaces Sainz, and is in a nice team with great management and direction. Pipe dream I guess. We seem to be in a situ where we are overloaded with rookies (thats a good thing) but underloaded with available experienced top drivers

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#3358130 28-Mar-2025 10:00

Jaxson:

I’m not seeing it as being dumped. If anything this is an upgrade for Liam.

If Liam does well now, and especially if Yuki fails, this could be ok for him.
Yuki is vastly more experienced so one would expect a bit better for him.

Not enough is being said about Liam running different parts early on either.

“[Lawson] obviously struggled a little bit for performance over the two opening weekends of the 2025 championship in Australia and China... there was nothing to suggest that Liam was going to be able to turn it around in the short term.”

He said members of Lawson’s camp told him that they also believed this was the right move for the young Kiwi.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/liam-lawson-breaks-silence-after-being-demoted-by-red-bull-racing/3V36O3U36BBP5DFEDUAQO7META/

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#3358182 28-Mar-2025 10:19

Batman:

Jaxson:

I’m not seeing it as being dumped. If anything this is an upgrade for Liam.

If Liam does well now, and especially if Yuki fails, this could be ok for him.
Yuki is vastly more experienced so one would expect a bit better for him.

Not enough is being said about Liam running different parts early on either.

“[Lawson] obviously struggled a little bit for performance over the two opening weekends of the 2025 championship in Australia and China... there was nothing to suggest that Liam was going to be able to turn it around in the short term.”

He said members of Lawson’s camp told him that they also believed this was the right move for the young Kiwi.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/liam-lawson-breaks-silence-after-being-demoted-by-red-bull-racing/3V36O3U36BBP5DFEDUAQO7META/

And there you have it...this sport (or at least this team) is all about short term planning. No long game at all.

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#3358183 28-Mar-2025 10:28

I too read quite a bit of commentary slamming Red Bull for this. Even those who wanted Tsunoda in the first place.

For me, this looks more and more like Red Bull are trying to avoid losing Verstappen. Sure he's contracted to 2028 but he'll have some exit clauses in there. No doubt around team (car) performance. Could be both Yuki and Lawson getting hung out to dry. If I were Lawson, I'd be using the rest of the season to advertise myself to other teams.

Jvipers2

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Master Geek

#3358255 28-Mar-2025 15:35

Sad to see Liam losing the seat so early in the season...guess the $19m is a good figure for a F1 seat in RB..

Hope he'll bounce back in Suzuka...finishing ahead of Yuki...that would be a sight to behold...

Handsomedan:
And there you have it...this sport (or at least this team) is all about short term planning. No long game at all.

Technically a long term thing...you start in F3 then to F2 then F1...and you stay as long as you are competitive...

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#3358657 30-Mar-2025 00:55

I am a Liam fan, back to sister/junior team is the best move for his career.

It was pretty clear Liam didn't have the experience to switch his driving style on the fly to how the RB21 needs to be driven ie:

RB21 needs U shaped corners, trail breaking, subtle inputs and gentle turn in
Liam currently has style that is late breaking, V shaped corners and aggressive turn in (similar to Carlos Sainz when he had less experience)

You can see videos about this here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuv8lSIOjHw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlWPe-v6kqw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgXk8vgnZNE

https://youtu.be/1gAJf-mTP40?si=5YIM5PkDOTOXMuhW&t=380

Honda's $10M donation to RB just sped up the axe

Also cutting his hair, lost is power... lol

tdgeek

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#3358667 30-Mar-2025 07:59

Ragnor:

I am a Liam fan, back to sister/junior team is the best move for his career.

It was pretty clear Liam didn't have the experience to switch his driving style on the fly to how the RB21 needs to be driven ie:

RB21 needs U shaped corners, trail breaking, subtle inputs and gentle turn in
Liam currently has style that is late breaking, V shaped corners and aggressive turn in (similar to Carlos Sainz when he had less experience)
You can see videos about this here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuv8lSIOjHw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlWPe-v6kqw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgXk8vgnZNE

https://youtu.be/1gAJf-mTP40?si=5YIM5PkDOTOXMuhW&t=380

Honda's $10M donation to RB just sped up the axe

Also cutting his hair, lost is power... lol

Im sure if he was told his inputs need to change, he would work with that. To me, Perez struggled, Max struggles, Liam struggles.

It all went belly up when Newey left. Not that he snipped off parts of aero overnight lol, but that the race config involves the race team. The aero effect of any proposed setup configs and how that may help, hinder, or be a good idea in theory but there may be other negative effects caused by any setup proposals. That knowledge left. Every setup change is a compromise. It may be that the current team cannot manage the negative effects of how they setup the car. IIRC there are tyre overheating, high fuel running is poor once the tyres overheat. Max in China drove slow to save the tyres, then when fuel burnt off he improved, not just with low fuel that the grid improves, but the car got better. One example. No doubt your comments on driving style matter. But Sergio went right off the boil, Max cant use the whole car as he used to, Liam the same as Perez. AFAIK the car didnt change when Newey left, I feel the ability to line up the dots dropped when he left, how to setup the car. Max won 7 of the first 10 races last year, 2 of the last 14, one of which was Brazil in the wet, which is a driver result not a car result.Thats quite a shift. Yes, the others improved, but RBR was arguable the 3rd best team, possibly 4th. 2025 its the same.

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#3358672 30-Mar-2025 09:19

Ragnor:

It was pretty clear Liam didn't have the experience to switch his driving style on the fly to how the RB21 needs to be driven ie:

RB21 needs U shaped corners, trail breaking, subtle inputs and gentle turn in
Liam currently has style that is late breaking, V shaped corners and aggressive turn in (similar to Carlos Sainz when he had less experience)

I've watched 2 "ghost" videos showing Lawson v's Tsunoda and Verstappen and in both cases the cars appear to follow the same line into and out of corners. The comments being that Lawson comes into corners faster but loses on exit either because he hasn't got confidence in the rear sticking or lack of grip.

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#3358673 30-Mar-2025 09:24

I was wondering if the RB21 has an aerodynamics problem around the rear section removing grip on some corners. I’m wondering if this is related to the new cooling changes and nose design. As I don’t watch F1, it is just from seeing highlights on Youtube.

I’m also wondering if there is a combination of not enough data for the circuit plus car design and perhaps not the right feedback to/from the driver that potentially is learning a new car and circuits. This is just speculation as one can’t see the telemetry (pressure and flow).

Having said that, if a team is going for the constructors championship it needs to have both cars scoring points I would think.

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