Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | ... | 54
Mad Scientist
20656 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1006809 16-Mar-2014 18:18
Send private message

The Swiss cheese model should be renamed Malaysian cheese




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


509 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


 
 
 
 


3399 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1006821 16-Mar-2014 18:42
Send private message

^ROFL - highly credible website...

715 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  # 1006822 16-Mar-2014 18:45
Send private message

turnin: Note the conspiracy potential in this one :)
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/malaysia-airlines-plane-mh370-latest-conspiracy-theory-were-freescale-semiconductor-top-employees-1440097




Or the "hijacking due to a remote control takeover of the aircraft based on its software vulnerabilities" one I just saw.. 

Mad Scientist
20656 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1006825 16-Mar-2014 18:55
Send private message

if that article is true it cannot get much more Hollywood than this. I was sceptical why dick ripped out his pacemaker some time back ... but I could you take control of a plane by hacking it?! and Russia doing all its stuff to distract the world? (lol my own conspiracy theory now)




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


1892 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1006836 16-Mar-2014 19:20
Send private message

joker97: if that article is true it cannot get much more Hollywood than this. I was sceptical why dick ripped out his pacemaker some time back ... but I could you take control of a plane by hacking it?! and Russia doing all its stuff to distract the world? (lol my own conspiracy theory now)


This is a little bit off topic, but industrial equipment in secure environments has been hacked and controlled before.  With the motivation, anything electronic that communicates with the outside world is not safe.  Have a look in to Stuxnet.  There are now various copies and variations doing different things around the world now, but it will show you exactly what is possible when it comes to foreign interests taking control of what isn't theirs.





Sometimes what you don't get is a blessing in disguise!

3202 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1006942 16-Mar-2014 21:59
Send private message

There's been a lot of comment on this thread that has come from misunderstanding, misinformation or a lack of aviation knowledge. Stuff, like a "flame out" being thought of as a stream of fire from the engine as it runs out of fuel, climbing to 45,000 to avoid detection, engine still running after a water landing, making a safe landing on a dark night without a prepared runway or any runway lights. 

Then there's this. I realise the poster wasn't trying to say they believed this.

Or the "hijacking due to a remote control takeover of the aircraft based on its software vulnerabilities" one I just saw..


Guys (and Girls) before anyone starts posting as if this stupid information has any credibility, there is no way someone could have hacked in to the flight management computer. That system is completely isolated from any other system on the plane and there is no external/remote access to it. The only input is via pilot input in the cockpit.

Also there is no 10 minute rule for for ATC contact.  What I think was being referred to here was there is a 10 minute period from the time they lose VHF contact with Malaysian ATC till they get reliable VHF contact with Vietnamese ATC.  Same reason there is no Flight Radar 24 coverage in this area.






Sony Xperia X running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS 
Samsung Galaxy Tab S3
Nokia N1
Dell Inspiron 14z i5


 
 
 
 


17316 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1006945 16-Mar-2014 22:05
Send private message

Technofreak:
Also there is no 10 minute rule for for ATC contact.  What I think was being referred to here was there is a 10 minute period from the time they lose VHF contact with Malaysian ATC till they get reliable VHF contact with Vietnamese ATC.  Same reason there is no Flight Radar 24 coverage in this area.




I've not heard of the 10 minute rule either, but the way it was portrayed on CNN was that there has to be a minimum 10 minute distance between ATC if there is a coverage gap. As if it was mandatory.

3202 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1006950 16-Mar-2014 22:20
Send private message

tdgeek:
Technofreak:
Also there is no 10 minute rule for for ATC contact.  What I think was being referred to here was there is a 10 minute period from the time they lose VHF contact with Malaysian ATC till they get reliable VHF contact with Vietnamese ATC.  Same reason there is no Flight Radar 24 coverage in this area.




I've not heard of the 10 minute rule either, but the way it was portrayed on CNN was that there has to be a minimum 10 minute distance between ATC if there is a coverage gap. As if it was mandatory.


Now you're making it sound like a time gap between aircraft.




Sony Xperia X running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS 
Samsung Galaxy Tab S3
Nokia N1
Dell Inspiron 14z i5


17316 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1006955 16-Mar-2014 22:35
Send private message

Technofreak:
tdgeek:
Technofreak:
Also there is no 10 minute rule for for ATC contact.  What I think was being referred to here was there is a 10 minute period from the time they lose VHF contact with Malaysian ATC till they get reliable VHF contact with Vietnamese ATC.  Same reason there is no Flight Radar 24 coverage in this area.




I've not heard of the 10 minute rule either, but the way it was portrayed on CNN was that there has to be a minimum 10 minute distance between ATC if there is a coverage gap. As if it was mandatory.


Now you're making it sound like a time gap between aircraft.


It didn't sound like seperation they were talking about, perhaps it was. It sounded like if there is a gap between ATC areas, where there is no coverage, it cannot be over 10 minutes, I assumed flying time. Matt saw an article on Sky TV UK that said a similar thing, so I guess its how they delivered what they meant. They were newsreaders rather than aviation staff.

15019 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1006961 16-Mar-2014 22:46
One person supports this post
Send private message

Technofreak: 

Also there is no 10 minute rule for for ATC contact.  What I think was being referred to here was there is a 10 minute period from the time they lose VHF contact with Malaysian ATC till they get reliable VHF contact with Vietnamese ATC.  Same reason there is no Flight Radar 24 coverage in this area.




That is not entirely accurate, as you sound like you are referring to a 10 minute 'dead zone', where the plane isn't able to contact anyone due to being out of range of both. and I don't think that was ever mentioned. The way I understand it, the pilot could have immediately contacted the  Vietnamese ATC , after they  had signed off from the  Malaysian ATC. The thing is that they didn't. Why didn't they? There is a 10 minute 'maximum' amount of time allowed after the pilot signed off from the  Malaysian ATC, until they must contact the  Vietnamese ATC, otherwise an alarm will be raised. The UK Sky program was discussing this with real pilots of this same plane model, so they would know all the rules.

3202 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1006962 16-Mar-2014 22:50
Send private message

tdgeek: 

It didn't sound like seperation they were talking about, perhaps it was. It sounded like if there is a gap between ATC areas, where there is no coverage, it cannot be over 10 minutes, I assumed flying time. Matt saw an article on Sky TV UK that said a similar thing, so I guess its how they delivered what they meant. They were newsreaders rather than aviation staff.


There's plenty of places around the globe where there's much much more than 10 minutes flight time between VHF coverage, more like 10 hours in some cases. Usually aircraft flying these routes will have HF transceivers as well as VHF, even then there is no need for 10 minute calls.

I suspect in this case as there was probably only a 10 minute blank spot they wouldn't bother with HF even if it was equipped.  HF coverage can be hit and miss anyway with skip distances changing with the time of the day.  Therefore the requirement to use different frequencies for the same contact based on the time you try to call.




Sony Xperia X running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS 
Samsung Galaxy Tab S3
Nokia N1
Dell Inspiron 14z i5


3202 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1006964 16-Mar-2014 22:59
Send private message

mattwnz: [
That is not entirely accurate, as you sound like you are referring to a 10 minute 'dead zone', where the plane isn't able to contact anyone due to being out of range of both. and I don't think that was ever mentioned. The way I understand it, the pilot could have immediately contacted the  Vietnamese ATC , after they  had signed off from the  Malaysian ATC. The thing is that they didn't. Why didn't they? There is a 10 minute 'maximum' amount of time allowed after the pilot signed off from the  Malaysian ATC, until they must contact the  Vietnamese ATC, otherwise an alarm will be raised. The UK Sky program was discussing this with real pilots of this same plane model, so they would know all the rules.


Ok, you saw the item, I didn't, however this 10 minute thing seems to be very odd. The model of aircraft wouldn't make any difference. If they were able to make immediate contact I would expect there to be some alarm raising going on well before 10 minutes was up. 10 minutes is a long time when ATC are trying to ensure aircraft separation.  I would imagine this is a fairly busy airspace.

Hence my comments re a dead area for reception which also ties in the the ADS-B signal for the Flight radar 24 info which is also VHF and disappears in this area.




Sony Xperia X running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS 
Samsung Galaxy Tab S3
Nokia N1
Dell Inspiron 14z i5


509 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  # 1006965 16-Mar-2014 23:07
Send private message

Technofreak: 
Also there is no 10 minute rule for for ATC contact.  What I think was being referred to here was there is a 10 minute period from the time they lose VHF contact with Malaysian ATC till they get reliable VHF contact with Vietnamese ATC.  Same reason there is no Flight Radar 24 coverage in this area.


are you referring to the coverage closer to Vietnam?  
flightradar24 said their coverage was good where the plane disappeared
how do auto-lands work, are instructions passed between the airport and the plane or is the plane autonomous ?


1923 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1006967 16-Mar-2014 23:14
Send private message

It's the 10 minute window (between ATC contacts), the pilot relied on to make a course (and altitude) change that would make him invisible when he appeared on radar again. (ie: the aircraft position, altitude and heading would not have been where anybody was looking once they started to look. Therefore the plane could continue flying off course without suspicion, even though it may have been being radar tracked, whilst the initial search got underway)

(Instrument landings require airfield systems to set up the required approach angle and touchdown points)

1 | ... | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | ... | 54
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Kiwi workers still falling victim to old cyber tricks
Posted 12-Aug-2019 20:47


Lightning Lab GovTech launches 2019 programme
Posted 12-Aug-2019 20:41


Epson launches portable laser projector
Posted 12-Aug-2019 20:27


Huawei launches new distributed HarmonyOS
Posted 12-Aug-2019 20:20


Lenovo introduces single-socket servers for edge and data-intensive workloads
Posted 9-Aug-2019 21:26


The Document Foundation announces LibreOffice 6.3
Posted 9-Aug-2019 16:57


Symantec sell enterprise security assets for US$ 10.7 billion to Broadcom
Posted 9-Aug-2019 16:43


Artificial tongue can distinguish whisky and identify counterfeits
Posted 8-Aug-2019 20:20


Toyota and Preferred Networks to develop service robots
Posted 8-Aug-2019 20:11


Vodafone introduces new Vodafone TV device
Posted 7-Aug-2019 17:16


Intel announces next-generation Intel Xeon Scalable processors with up to 56 cores
Posted 7-Aug-2019 15:41


Nokia 2.2 released in New Zealand
Posted 5-Aug-2019 19:38


2degrees celebrating ten years
Posted 5-Aug-2019 05:00


Sure Petcare launches SureFeed microchip pet feeder
Posted 2-Aug-2019 17:00


Symantec Threat Intelligence: revival and rise of email extortion scams
Posted 2-Aug-2019 16:55



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.