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8462 posts

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  # 1008391 18-Mar-2014 20:48
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turnin:
Technofreak:
turnin: not sure who Dr Leivesley is other than a British Anti terror expert but .....
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/465126/Missing-Malaysia-Airlines-plane-may-have-been-cyber-hijacked-using-mobile-phone


FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, where do these people come from. It cannot happen, there is no way a mobile phone can hijack an aircraft.  We have already discussed this stupid idea.

To say " the hackers could change the plane’s speed, altitude and direction by sending radio signals to its flight management system" is utter BS.




http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-22107433

http://conference.hitb.org/hitbsecconf2013ams/materials/D1T1%20-%20Hugo%20Teso%20-%20Aircraft%20Hacking%20-%20Practical%20Aero%20Series.pdf


https://www.nruns.com/index.php

best you get upset with this guy then, he's just demonstrated it .


He's also debunked it (and issued a disclaimer):

About the Malaysia Airlines 370

Due to the recent publication of information suggesting that the disappearance of Malaysia
Airlines Boing 777 could be due to a potential cyber-attack and that the research performed by
Hugo Teso, from n.runs professionals GmbH demonstrated that such attacks are theoretically
possible, we want to the express our opinion about this potential cyber-attack theory.
We would like to clarify that it is highly unlikely that, whatever happened to this flight, had
anything to do with any form of cyber-attack against its systems.
n.runs professionals states that the purpose of the research carried out by this company is
simply to make companies aware that they need to invest in aviation application security
improvements. Our only motivation is to help make aviation safer and more secure.
n.runs professionals urges everyone to wait for the investigation into the whereabouts of the
MH370 to be completed and to avoid sensationalistic speculations about cyber-attacks used
against that aircraft

There were (supposed to be) pilots in the cockpit, they had radio, they would notice if someone had taken the controls.

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  # 1008397 18-Mar-2014 20:54
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no, he said it was unlikely and said his agenda was to raise awareness of such issues,
he quite clearly goes through it all at the conference, so it's not impossible !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk1jIKQvMx8

around the 41 minute mark he starts demonstrating the exploits. Including uploading of scripts 




 
 
 
 


8462 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1008411 18-Mar-2014 21:06
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joker97: this is all a wild goose chase. the horse has bolted. the horse began to bolt the minute the tracking system(s) were turned off. by the time anyone in Malaysia did anything it was too much too late.

if they airforce had followed the UFO we will know whether that was the plane or not.
if they had alerted all surrounding countries to check their radar we would know where the plane is today.

at the moment no one knows anything because the Malaysians were and probably still are drip feeding the world for a reason unknown.


Yup.
That's what you get from non-secular pseudo-democracies - an "orchestrated litany of lies".

While I've got my bigot hat on, a couple of things bother me about MH370.

I wouldn't particularity trust a 27YO copilot who still lives at home with mom and pop, living across the road from a mosque where he frequently worships, who likes to use his position to impress dumb aussie blondes.  Apart from the last bit, no doubt this makes him a "good boy", but IMO it's a bit weird.
The 52YO pilot, while probably the target for suspicion as his rather elaborate (understatement) home flight sim setup is a bit unusual, seems to have the hallmarks of being a serious geek (or nerd), but experienced, likable, and not of the typical age where one tends to be at risk of letting ideology get the better of you.
I don't trust the "secure cockpit" setup - it's a knee-jerk reaction to 9/11, but which presents other practical problems, with potential opportunities for "rogue pilots".

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  # 1008436 18-Mar-2014 21:23
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This is what happens when someone forgets to put their phone on Flight Mode.…





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  # 1008438 18-Mar-2014 21:24
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turnin: no, he said it was unlikely and said his agenda was to raise awareness of such issues,
he quite clearly goes through it all at the conference, so it's not impossible !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk1jIKQvMx8




Did you actually watch that video.  I must admit I haven't had time watch it all but there was no where I could see where he actually hacked in to a real FMS system. He talks about uploading malicious code but doesn't show how he actually gets this code into the aircraft.  

He talks a lot about finding targets using the likes of Flight radar 24 and about fanciful ideas like selecting a waypoint where the "payload will do it's stuff BUT absolutely nothing about the conduit to get this 'payload' on board the aircraft.  Flight radar 24 doesn't provide a two way service.

The only hacking he did was to hack into a computer running a simulation of the FMS software.

These things run proprietary software and there is no external link to get into the software to be able to hack them.

It's all hyped attention seeking BS, there is no way to do this, please accept what I'm saying.






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Ultimate Geek
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  # 1008457 18-Mar-2014 21:39
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Technofreak:
turnin: no, he said it was unlikely and said his agenda was to raise awareness of such issues,
he quite clearly goes through it all at the conference, so it's not impossible !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk1jIKQvMx8




Did you actually watch that video.  I must admit I haven't had time watch it all but there was no where I could see where he actually hacked in to a real FMS system. He talks about uploading malicious code but doesn't show how he actually gets this code into the aircraft.  The only hacking he did was to hack into a computer running a simulation of the FMS software.  It's all hyped attention seeking BS, there is no way to do this, please accept what I'm saying.

These things run proprietary software and there is no external link to get into the software to be able to hack them.


Accept what you are saying but accept you haven't watched it. OK LOL, well when you have time, watch it.
till then, in reality it matters not what I believe, but what thinking emanates from this guys work and how the industry reacts.
he is in talks with manufacturers, he has hacked a real FMS, there are some q+A's at the end where he talks about real life scenarios.
He does not detail "exactly" how he does it, obviously.
Call it BS if you want, I'll keep an open mind thanks.

 

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  # 1008458 18-Mar-2014 21:40
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I agree that it's hype and attention-seeking.

But perhaps the same techniques could apply as attacking Internet hosts... e.g. overflowing input buffers. Until this was demonstrated, it too was unbelievable.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1008462 18-Mar-2014 21:43
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Fred99:
joker97: this is all a wild goose chase. the horse has bolted. the horse began to bolt the minute the tracking system(s) were turned off. by the time anyone in Malaysia did anything it was too much too late.

if they airforce had followed the UFO we will know whether that was the plane or not.
if they had alerted all surrounding countries to check their radar we would know where the plane is today.

at the moment no one knows anything because the Malaysians were and probably still are drip feeding the world for a reason unknown.


Yup.
That's what you get from non-secular pseudo-democracies - an "orchestrated litany of lies".

While I've got my bigot hat on, a couple of things bother me about MH370.

I wouldn't particularity trust a 27YO copilot who still lives at home with mom and pop, living across the road from a mosque where he frequently worships, who likes to use his position to impress dumb aussie blondes.  Apart from the last bit, no doubt this makes him a "good boy", but IMO it's a bit weird.
The 52YO pilot, while probably the target for suspicion as his rather elaborate (understatement) home flight sim setup is a bit unusual, seems to have the hallmarks of being a serious geek (or nerd), but experienced, likable, and not of the typical age where one tends to be at risk of letting ideology get the better of you.
I don't trust the "secure cockpit" setup - it's a knee-jerk reaction to 9/11, but which presents other practical problems, with potential opportunities for "rogue pilots".


this is where i must vehementy object. just because a man frequents a mosque does not make him an extremist. he might turn out to be, but you cannot judge a man who frequents a mosque.

there is a guy in moscow (pronounced MARS-quar) who does not frequent a mosque.
there is a guy near pyongyang who keeps wanting to annihilate the USA who does not frequent a mosque.

i'm sorry that's not fair. period.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1008464 18-Mar-2014 21:44
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Fred99: 

While I've got my bigot hat on, a couple of things bother me about MH370.

I wouldn't particularity trust a 27YO copilot who still lives at home with mom and pop, living across the road from a mosque where he frequently worships, who likes to use his position to impress dumb aussie blondes.  Apart from the last bit, no doubt this makes him a "good boy", but IMO it's a bit weird.
The 52YO pilot, while probably the target for suspicion as his rather elaborate (understatement) home flight sim setup is a bit unusual, seems to have the hallmarks of being a serious geek (or nerd), but experienced, likable, and not of the typical age where one tends to be at risk of letting ideology get the better of you.
I don't trust the "secure cockpit" setup - it's a knee-jerk reaction to 9/11, but which presents other practical problems, with potential opportunities for "rogue pilots".


If it's been hijacked and been flown as suggested then it stands to reason that  at least one of the pilots was most likely involved. Which one? I don't don't know.  You could argue a case for either. For all we know it might be quite normal for single guys of that age to live with their parents in that part of the world.  Though I thought he had just bought a home and was to be married shortly.

I'm not sure I'd call the home flight sim elaborate.  It was pretty well all screens, nothing else.  The halfway good ones have buttons and switches where the real buttons and switches are located, not just a computer screen which displays these items.

Yep the secure cockpit was a knee jerk reaction just like a lot of other security measures. All designed to make the travelling public feel safer without in many cases actually improving safety.  There's been cases of one pilot being deliberately locked out of the cockpit.  Solve one problem, create another.




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  # 1008475 18-Mar-2014 21:52
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Fred99: While I've got my bigot hat on, a couple of things bother me about MH370.

I wouldn't particularity trust a 27YO copilot who still lives at home with mom and pop, living across the road from a mosque where he frequently worships, who likes to use his position to impress dumb aussie blondes. Apart from the last bit, no doubt this makes him a "good boy", but IMO it's a bit weird.


A frequent and not unsurprising comment in the current environment, but also a fraught one which can lead to being blindsided by the unexpected. You might find this and this interesting.

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  # 1008476 18-Mar-2014 21:52
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it's like saying because drink drivers kill people, everyone who visits pubs and bars are murderers.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/05/muslims-only-carried-out-2-5-percent-of-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil-between-1970-and-2012.html




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


8462 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1008504 18-Mar-2014 22:11
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Technofreak: 

I'm not sure I'd call the home flight sim elaborate.  It was pretty well all screens, nothing else.  The halfway good ones have buttons and switches where the real buttons and switches are located, not just a computer screen which displays these items.

Yep the secure cockpit was a knee jerk reaction just like a lot of other security measures. All designed to make the travelling public feel safer without in many cases actually improving safety.  There's been cases of one pilot being deliberately locked out of the cockpit.  Solve one problem, create another.


Here's his home flight-sim setup:


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  # 1008505 18-Mar-2014 22:14
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turnin:
Accept what you are saying but accept you haven't watched it. OK LOL, well when you have time, watch it.
till then, in reality it matters not what I believe, but what thinking emanates from this guys work and how the industry reacts.
he is in talks with manufacturers, he has hacked a real FMS, there are some q+A's at the end where he talks about real life scenarios.
He does not detail "exactly" how he does it, obviously.
Call it BS if you want, I'll keep an open mind thanks.

 


I've now watched quite a bit more including the Q and A bit, there is no substance to what he is saying. In fact I'd go as far to say he really doesn't know how the various systems on an aircraft with an FMS actually works.  He talks in very generic terms and doesn't display a good understanding of what and how things work.  

Prior to my previous post I'd already read what others who are very knowledgeable on the subject, and who have watched Hugo Teso's video, have said.  They said BS.

He hasn't hacked a real FMS, he even says that in the video.  As I said before he has only hacked a computer running the FMS software.

Believe what you want, but it's pure scaremongering.




Sony Xperia X running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS 
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  # 1008513 18-Mar-2014 22:25
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Technofreak:
turnin:
Accept what you are saying but accept you haven't watched it. OK LOL, well when you have time, watch it.
till then, in reality it matters not what I believe, but what thinking emanates from this guys work and how the industry reacts.
he is in talks with manufacturers, he has hacked a real FMS, there are some q+A's at the end where he talks about real life scenarios.
He does not detail "exactly" how he does it, obviously.
Call it BS if you want, I'll keep an open mind thanks.

 


I've now watched quite a bit more including the Q and A bit, there is no substance to what he is saying. In fact I'd go as far to say he really doesn't know how the various systems on an aircraft with an FMS actually works.  He talks in very generic terms and doesn't display a good understanding of what and how things work.  

Prior to my previous post I'd already read what others who are very knowledgeable on the subject, and who have watched Hugo Teso's video, have said.  They said BS.

He hasn't hacked a real FMS, he even says that in the video.  As I said before he has only hacked a computer running the FMS software.

Believe what you want, but it's pure scaremongering.


I agree, it's laughable to think the systems on the plane are accessible from anywhere but the flight deck areas, otherwise planes would be falling from the skies like snow in Queenstown during winter. No WAY on Gods earth would the FAA agree to it, no way would pilots agree to fly in one.

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