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  # 1010217 20-Mar-2014 22:01
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You didn't read or didn't understand my post did you? Did you not read that I postulated the failure took out the O2 system. How do the crew or passengers survive at 35,000 feet in an unpressurised aircraft without oxygen?


Crew Oxygen are separate systems for exactly this reason. Portable Oxygen is also available

Cabin Oxygen is a combined system (15 mins worth) located seperate from the cockpit.





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  # 1010221 20-Mar-2014 22:10
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Sounddude:


You didn't read or didn't understand my post did you? Did you not read that I postulated the failure took out the O2 system. How do the crew or passengers survive at 35,000 feet in an unpressurised aircraft without oxygen?


Crew Oxygen are all separate systems for exactly this reason. Each crew memeber has seperate oxygen systems. There are 4 in the cockpit (4 seats).

Cabin Oxygen is a combined system (15 mins worth) located seperate from the cockpit.






It presents the possibility of a very ugly scenario,  The cockpit / pilot supply lasts longer than 15 minutes.  If a rogue pilot locked the cabin door when the other pilot went for a leg-stretch, then he's got plenty of O2.
There are portable cabin crew sets - but he can outlast them many times over, if he chose to depressurise the cabin and hold altitude.

There's a big problem with the "unpiloted ghost plane" scenario.  The plane turned after it crossed into the Malacca Strait.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1010223 20-Mar-2014 22:13
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We are sure the radar is right/shows the correct plane?




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1010225 20-Mar-2014 22:14
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joker97: We are sure the radar is right/shows the correct plane?


Backed up by ACAR pings.

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  # 1010226 20-Mar-2014 22:14
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Technofreak:
Sounddude:
blakamin:
Technofreak: The debris hasn't drifted that far south, it flew that far south. That's the area where MH370 flew to before it ran out of fuel.

I still stand by my original theory, there was a major problem with the aircraft which took out the pilots O2 system and depressurised the aircraft. The pilots had time to don their O2 masks and turn the aircraft towards the best airfield for an emergency landing. Within 30 to 40 seconds they were unconscious with no time for a mayday call.

The problem what ever it was caused the communication systems to gradually fail. The aircraft continued flying on auto pilot heading in a southwesterly direcction till it ran out of fuel.


+1
This is the only theory I subscribe to at the moment.


I don't buy this theory at all.

The 777 has systems in place to measure cabin pressure. If the pressure goes above 10,000ft it alarms, with out hooters and alarms on control LCD's. No pilot could miss that.

They would then go through their depressurization procedures (Oxygen Masks, ATC comms and then dropping to flight levels below 10,000ft).

The cockpit oxygen has ample oxygen.

Mayday calls take seconds to do, also setting the transponder to 7700 would alert ATC that there is an issue. All part of the procedures.






You didn't read or didn't understand my post did you? Did you not read that I postulated the failure took out the O2 system. How do the crew or passengers survive at 35,000 feet in an unpressurised aircraft without oxygen?


So they lose oxygen, but have enough time to plot a new course into the computer (Complicated and moderately time consuming), but don't take the plane to an altitude where breathing equipment isn't required, nor take the < 3 seconds to activate the ATC and if they did, the plane would have hit the water within an hour because the earth isn't flat and no way would the plane not have drifted until it hit the ground.

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  # 1010231 20-Mar-2014 22:21
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Sounddude:


You didn't read or didn't understand my post did you? Did you not read that I postulated the failure took out the O2 system. How do the crew or passengers survive at 35,000 feet in an unpressurised aircraft without oxygen?


Crew Oxygen are separate systems for exactly this reason. Portable Oxygen is also available

Cabin Oxygen is a combined system (15 mins worth) located seperate from the cockpit.






It only requires the crew system to have failed.

Google time of useful consciousness at 35,0000 and then come back and tell me the crew have time to use a portable system assuming they have one handy. After they have tried the masks first The passenger system might have worked but in reality would only extend things for them by 15 or so minutes.

Fred

Yep that information on heading changes does fit my theory, but how mush of the information has been contradictory. Is that tracking data accurate?




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  # 1010235 20-Mar-2014 22:25
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Sounddude:
joker97: We are sure the radar is right/shows the correct plane?


Backed up by ACAR pings.


No it's not the only ping they have produced data on is the last ping and said the aircraft was somewhere on this arc at this time.




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  # 1010237 20-Mar-2014 22:26
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Sounddude:
joker97: We are sure the radar is right/shows the correct plane?


Backed up by ACAR pings.


I thought they had no idea where the acar pings came from once the radar was lost.

So the acar poisoning relied on the radar. Rather than radar proven by the acar?




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  # 1010240 20-Mar-2014 22:27
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If my statement is true then you have the blind leading the blind




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  # 1010243 20-Mar-2014 22:30
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Google time of useful consciousness at 35,0000 and then come back and tell me the crew have time to use a portable system assuming they have one handy. After they have tried the masks first The passenger system might have worked but in reality would only extend things for them by 15 or so minutes.


That would be an explosive decompression not a slow decompression.

Do you think the plane would fly for 7 hours after an explosive decompression? If they had an explosive decompression, the plane would have been exactly where they lost contact with it.

Doesn't explain the ACARS shutoff, but the ACARS ping still going. If ACARS was to fail due to hardware fail, it would fail altogether.








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  # 1010245 20-Mar-2014 22:31
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joker97:
Sounddude:
joker97: We are sure the radar is right/shows the correct plane?


Backed up by ACAR pings.


I thought they had no idea where the acar pings came from once the radar was lost.

So the acar poisoning relied on the radar. Rather than radar proven by the acar?


They know the distance from the sat, which is where the ARC came from.

But yes, they dont know the direction the plan was heading, but thats why the Thai radar plots were so vital.

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  # 1010246 20-Mar-2014 22:31
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networkn

it only takes o few seconds to select heading mode and change heading or use a nearest then direct to function, nothing complicated or time consuming.

The auto pilot will happily keep going where it has been told to fly




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  # 1010250 20-Mar-2014 22:35
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What confuses me, is that the investigators have said that the course change was programmed in BEFORE the pilots last voice communication. So if you buy into a plane fault, then the pilot would have known there was a problem before that last voice communications, then why did he say they had a problem and would be diverting to the nearest airport. They still have voice communiscations at that point.Something just doesn't add up.

Also that sat photo looks more like a container or a number of containers to me. If it was part of the plane, I would have thought it would be part of the wing or tail, as the fuselage I would have thought would have sunk. If it is that broken up, they should be a lot of thinks like cushions and it should be spread out over a large area. 

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  # 1010252 20-Mar-2014 22:38
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Technofreak: networkn

it only takes o few seconds to select heading mode and change heading or use a nearest then direct to function, nothing complicated or time consuming.

The auto pilot will happily keep going where it has been told to fly


Which would have been straight over Indonesian airspace and not consistent with ACARS pings, nor radar.
So - it almost certainly didn't happen that way.

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  # 1010282 20-Mar-2014 22:52
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Sounddude:

Google time of useful consciousness at 35,0000 and then come back and tell me the crew have time to use a portable system assuming they have one handy. After they have tried the masks first The passenger system might have worked but in reality would only extend things for them by 15 or so minutes.


That would be an explosive decompression not a slow decompression.

Do you think the plane would fly for 7 hours after an explosive decompression? If they had an explosive decompression, the plane would have been exactly where they lost contact with it.

Doesn't explain the ACARS shutoff, but the ACARS ping still going. If ACARS was to fail due to hardware fail, it would fail altogether.









Explosive or not time of useful consciousness is very short at those altitudes, 30 to 60 seconds. It's just even shorter after an explosive depressurisation.

Google QF30 and tell us that wasn't explosive.

Without going into a detailed explanation of ACARS, but there's several components to it, it's possible for some bits to fail yet still get pings.




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