Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14
11506 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5211

Trusted

  Reply # 1093109 21-Jul-2014 15:29
Send private message

gzt:
turnin: So you aware that just months ago the Ukraine Prime Minister had to leave his post, he was not voted out, in any other country we would call this a coup ? what do you call it ?

I believe you are talking about the ex-president rather than a prime minister. The prime minister resigned in protest at the heavy actions of the president. The president subsequently fled in fear of legal prosecution and subsequent to that 73.4% of Ukrainian parliament voted in favor of removing him, which they did. Apparently the Ukrainian constitution states 3/4 and there is obviously some debate if 3/4 was reached. It looks to me a bit closer to events which occur in a functioning democracy than closer to a coup.

turnin: What do you make of the Nuland tapes ?

Yeah it's pretty obvious the USA is trying to heavily influence Ukrainian democracy.


The Big Powers are always applying influence and it trickles down until Harry applies influence to Bob,  its not new and I don't believe it will ever go away.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


509 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 155
Inactive user


  Reply # 1093116 21-Jul-2014 15:37
Send private message

KiwiNZ:
gzt:
turnin: So you aware that just months ago the Ukraine Prime Minister had to leave his post, he was not voted out, in any other country we would call this a coup ? what do you call it ?

I believe you are talking about the ex-president rather than a prime minister. The prime minister resigned in protest at the heavy actions of the president. The president subsequently fled in fear of legal prosecution and subsequent to that 73.4% of Ukrainian parliament voted in favor of removing him, which they did. Apparently the Ukrainian constitution states 3/4 and there is obviously some debate if 3/4 was reached. It looks to me a bit closer to events which occur in a functioning democracy than closer to a coup.

turnin: What do you make of the Nuland tapes ?

Yeah it's pretty obvious the USA is trying to heavily influence Ukrainian democracy.


The Big Powers are always applying influence and it trickles down until Harry applies influence to Bob,  its not new and I don't believe it will ever go away.


cool, no point get upset about the very direct consequences of it then.

 
 
 
 


11506 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5211

Trusted

  Reply # 1093120 21-Jul-2014 15:40
Send private message

turnin:
KiwiNZ:
gzt:
turnin: So you aware that just months ago the Ukraine Prime Minister had to leave his post, he was not voted out, in any other country we would call this a coup ? what do you call it ?

I believe you are talking about the ex-president rather than a prime minister. The prime minister resigned in protest at the heavy actions of the president. The president subsequently fled in fear of legal prosecution and subsequent to that 73.4% of Ukrainian parliament voted in favor of removing him, which they did. Apparently the Ukrainian constitution states 3/4 and there is obviously some debate if 3/4 was reached. It looks to me a bit closer to events which occur in a functioning democracy than closer to a coup.

turnin: What do you make of the Nuland tapes ?

Yeah it's pretty obvious the USA is trying to heavily influence Ukrainian democracy.


The Big Powers are always applying influence and it trickles down until Harry applies influence to Bob,  its not new and I don't believe it will ever go away.


cool, no point get upset about the very direct consequences of it then.


Did not say that




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


BDFL - Memuneh
59399 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10606

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1093125 21-Jul-2014 15:48
One person supports this post
Send private message

joker97: but if you (Russia) meddle back by supplying hi tech weapons and start a war disguised with separatists and then shoot down some other people with a secret weapon (not so secret anymore) ...


One thing is actually using your own uniform in a war and another is deny involvement, support militias and be suspected of sending regular army personnel disguised as locals.

 




10508 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1744

Trusted

  Reply # 1093126 21-Jul-2014 15:49
Send private message

As far as I recall from yesterday's CNN, there are 130 odd investigation staff ready. A CNN reporter is there as are many reporters, the crash scene is blocked for vehicles, about 300 meters away, but reporters can roam freely. 300 odd volunteer miners are getting bodies. Some progress, but easy to see why. Rebels don't want the opposition, Ukraine and the west there to take control, Ukraine and the west cannot get guarantees of safety. What level of taking evidence it's hard to know, cannot rely on anyone for that info. Whatever rebels do take, that won't stop the forensic finding of a missile intervention. Evidence of that will be everywhere they cannot take the whole plane. The black boxes, if they are lost or never found, that's obvious of the reason why. Even then, whatever they show will be denied. Netherlands should run the investigation for some level of independence, but US is allowed as it's their aircraft, Ukraine is allowed as it's in there country. No matter what, one side will be saying its lies, one side will be saying its bias, etc.

Sad for the families to be stuck in the middle

10508 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1744

Trusted

  Reply # 1093140 21-Jul-2014 15:57
Send private message

freitasm:
joker97: but if you (Russia) meddle back by supplying hi tech weapons and start a war disguised with separatists and then shoot down some other people with a secret weapon (not so secret anymore) ...


One thing is actually using your own uniform in a war and another is deny involvement, support militias and be suspected of sending regular army personnel disguised as locals.

 


I agree on that. It's common for a country to support and supply materials to another, yet not be in the war. Unless Russia provided the operator of the BUK, then technically it's no different to many other examples of supplying arms, as US and Russia and China have done. There are a multitude of complexities here, let alone should MAS have flown there, should ICAO, etc have provided a legit no fly zone. You can almost provide a positive response to every party, and negatives.

Oddly it's unlikely to be resolved legally, it will be politically



Mad Scientist
17740 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2178

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1093499 22-Jul-2014 09:33
Send private message

joker97: There is a half truth in that, as I believe no one is in charge of the investigation process. Everyone is in Kiev waiting for someone to take control it seems.


so it seems the PM of Malaysia is trying to make things happen from the other side of the world, good on him. 

https://ms-my.facebook.com/najibrazak

5hrs ago:
PRIME MINISTER NAJIB RAZAK STATEMENT ON MH17 AGREEMENT

In recent days, we have been working behind the scenes to establish contact with those in charge of the MH17 crash site.

That contact has now been made. Under difficult and fluid circumstances, we have been discussing the problems that have occupied us all: securing vital evidence from the aircraft, launching an independent investigation, and above all recovering the remains of those who lost their lives.

Tonight, we have established the basis of an agreement to do just that.

Earlier this evening I spoke to Alexander Borodai, who is in command of the region where the tragedy occurred. We have agreed the following: 

· Firstly, the remains of 282 people, currently in Torez, will be moved by train to Kharkiv, where they will be handed over to representatives from the Netherlands. The train will depart this evening Ukraine time, and will be accompanied by six Malaysian members of the recovery team. The remains will then be flown to Amsterdam on board a Dutch C130 Hercules, together with the Malaysian team. Following any necessary forensic work, the remains of Malaysian citizens will then be flown home to Malaysia.



· Secondly, at approximately 9pm tonight Ukraine time, the two black boxes will be handed over to a Malaysian team in Donetsk, who will take custody of them.



· Thirdly, independent international investigators will be guaranteed safe access to the crash site to begin a full investigation of the incident.

I must stress that although agreement has been reached, there remain a number of steps required before it is completed.

There is work still to be done, work which relies on continued communication in good faith. Mr Borodai and his people have so far given their co-operation.

I ask that all parties continue to work together to ensure that this agreement is honoured; that the remains of our people are returned, that the black box is handed over, and that the international team is granted full access to the site.

Only then can the investigation into MH17 truly begin; only then can the victims be afforded the respect they deserve. We need to know what caused the plane to crash, and who was responsible for it, so that justice may be done.

In recent days, there were times I wanted to give greater voice to the anger and grief that the Malaysian people feel. And that I feel. But sometimes, we must work quietly in the service of a better outcome.

I understand that for the families, nothing can undo this damage. The lives taken cannot be given back; the dignity lost cannot be regained.

My heart reaches out to those whose loved ones were lost on MH17. We hope and pray that the agreement reached tonight helps bring them a clear step towards closure.

ENDS

gzt

9259 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1318


  Reply # 1093583 22-Jul-2014 12:08
Send private message

Good effort there from Malaysia and the PM. No doubt some Americans will be annoyed everything did not go through them and could not take advantage of the situation for their own diplomatic purposes.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/10294767/MH17-black-boxes-recovered-after-secret-talks

10508 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1744

Trusted

  Reply # 1093586 22-Jul-2014 12:13
Send private message

gzt: Good effort there from Malaysia and the PM. No doubt some Americans will be annoyed everything did not go through them and could not take advantage of the situation for their own diplomatic purposes.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/10294767/MH17-black-boxes-recovered-after-secret-talks


Doubt it, its not an American investigation. Their only involvement will be that the aircraft is American, so they will have an involvement in the investigation. This is a Europe incident. 

gzt

9259 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1318


  Reply # 1093624 22-Jul-2014 12:34
Send private message

There will be some annoyance from the Americans. The Malaysian effort effectively recognises the Moscow based 'prime minister' of Donetsk as the responsible civil authority for the area, and must continue to do so for the duration of the process which could take a while yet and get more complicated.



Mad Scientist
17740 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2178

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1093631 22-Jul-2014 12:44
Send private message

The carefully worded statement does not in any way recognise the "commander" of Donetsk as sovereign and elected. It was the way to negotiate with whoever needs to be negotiated with. What's wrong with that?



Mad Scientist
17740 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2178

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1093632 22-Jul-2014 12:45
Send private message

eg if someone is holding hostages in a bank you call the bank manager?



Mad Scientist
17740 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2178

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1093652 22-Jul-2014 12:56
Send private message

gzt: There will be some annoyance from the Americans. The Malaysian effort effectively recognises the Moscow based 'prime minister' of Donetsk as the responsible civil authority for the area, and must continue to do so for the duration of the process which could take a while yet and get more complicated.


are you talking about the "secret deal" that was negotiated? the rules of engagement can change anytime, due to the highly volatile situation, for all you know they next minute the Ukraines hit them with a something strike and then everyone for themselves again. but this is the nature of the situation which first world new zealanders may never understand.

gzt

9259 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1318


  Reply # 1093653 22-Jul-2014 12:57
Send private message

I think it's a good effort to achieve some objectives. Return of the bodies, and recovery of the black boxes. It also puts a different light on events of the last few days in that regard.

509 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 155
Inactive user


  Reply # 1093737 22-Jul-2014 14:20
Send private message

Well, now it gets very interesting,  


1 | ... | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

New Zealand hits peak broadband data
Posted 18-Jan-2018 12:21


Amazon Echo devices coming to New Zealand early February 2018
Posted 18-Jan-2018 10:53


$3.74 million for new electric vehicles in New Zealand
Posted 17-Jan-2018 11:27


Nova 2i: Value, not excitement from Huawei
Posted 17-Jan-2018 09:02


Less news in Facebook News Feed revamp
Posted 15-Jan-2018 13:15


Australian Government contract awarded to Datacom Connect
Posted 11-Jan-2018 08:37


Why New Zealand needs a chief technology officer
Posted 6-Jan-2018 13:59


Amazon release Silk Browser and Firefox for Fire TV
Posted 21-Dec-2017 13:42


New Chief Technology Officer role created
Posted 19-Dec-2017 22:18


All I want for Christmas is a new EV
Posted 19-Dec-2017 19:54


How clever is this: AI will create 2.3 million jobs by 2020
Posted 19-Dec-2017 19:52


NOW to deploy SD-WAN to regional councils
Posted 19-Dec-2017 19:46


Mobile market competition issues ComCom should watch
Posted 18-Dec-2017 10:52


New Zealand government to create digital advisory group
Posted 16-Dec-2017 08:47


Australia datum changes means whole country moving 1.8 metres north-east
Posted 16-Dec-2017 08:39



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.