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  Reply # 1206064 30-Dec-2014 14:37
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Fred99:

AFAIK. commercial airliners flying scheduled routes and with CVR/FDR are not required to have ELTs.
But liferafts must have them.


I don't see how carrying a CVR/FDR and flying a scheduled route removes the need for an ELT to be fitted. The ELT and the CVR and FDR are vastly different devices and perform completely different functions. An ELT is a location device the CVR and FDR are recording devices.

I think you'll find all airliners have an ELT fitted. The ones I know of do.




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  Reply # 1206091 30-Dec-2014 15:14
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markl:
gzt: You are right. It is a leap but it is not a massive one. Circumstances are very similar.


No. They are not. There ARE no circumstances yet. You cannot make comparisons until there is a critical mass of evidence. The aircraft is yet to be found. Only when the damage to the airframe, the injuries to the passengers and the data and voice recordings from the FDR and the CVR are available can any sort of analysis take place. 

Right now, it's similar to the Air France accident, but also to, say, the Air NZ A320 crash off Perpingnan, or the Egypt Air Flight 990 incident, or the Silk Air Flight 185 crash, etc.

All that is known right now is that voice communications ceased and the aircraft disappeared off radar mid-flight. You can't even begin to determine a reason at this stage.

Again you are right, but also presence of storms are a similar factor in both accidents.

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  Reply # 1206094 30-Dec-2014 15:20
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gzt: ..................Circumstances are very similar.


The only circumstances that are similar is that the aircraft is no longer in the air - period!!

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  Reply # 1206164 30-Dec-2014 18:11
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Found this circulating on twitter
http://news.metrotvnews.com


translated =
Metrotvnews.com , Louth :
Ship Captain KM Fariawan Advanced Marine who saw the plane flying low in the East red Lingga Island , Riau Islands claimed was sailing towards Bangka of Batam . Fariawan see the red plane flying low between the hours of 07:30 to 7:40 pm , yesterday , at coordinates 00 ' 17 ' 202 S and 105 ' 40 ' 422 E he was being served from 04.00 am until 08.00 pm .

" I see a red plane flying low over , exactly on the left gastric vessels , " said Fariawan to Metrotvnews.com onboard Maritime Forward in Louth , Bangka Belitung , Monday ( 12/29/2014 ) .According to the captain who was 32 ​​years at sea , the bow of the ship from Batam to the Bangka the right 140 degrees opposite to the wing Air Asia 320 degrees .Based on the vanishing point , 109-41-46 03-36-31 south latitude and east longitude and based his calculations he believes , Airbus A320-200 aircraft is located at 50 East mi Lingga Island , Riau Islands ." So it's possible fit , with my count , ie 00-17-202 S 105-40-422E . " he added .

Previously, the Office of the Regional SAR Bangka-Belitung province on Sunday ( 12/28/2014 ) It receives information via marine radio communication equipment that is of a ship who said she saw a red plane flying low in the East Linga Island ( read : http://news.metrotvnews.com/read/2014/12/28/337752/km-bahari-maju-lihat-pesawat-merah-terbang-rendah-di-timur-pulau-lingga ) ."

To me, "flying low" does not sound like a "stall", in so far as the captain does not mention any sudden decrease in elevation. which has been speculated.
Interestingly there seems to be far less speculation this time around

You can help scan live satelite images at http://www.tomnod.com/




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  Reply # 1206190 30-Dec-2014 19:31
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we really need to get the black box don't we ...

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  Reply # 1206249 30-Dec-2014 21:48
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Debris and bodies have been found.




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  Reply # 1206286 31-Dec-2014 00:14
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Zippity:
gzt: Circumstances are very similar.

The only circumstances that are similar is that the aircraft is no longer in the air - period!!

Stuff:Online discussion among pilots has centred on unconfirmed secondary radar data from Malaysia that suggested the aircraft was climbing at a speed of 353 knots, about 100 knots too slow, and that it might have stalled.[/url]

All of this is unconfirmed speculation, but there appear to be many similar circumstances. I agree that appearances are often misleading and nothing will be known for certain until data has been correlated from many sources to build a full picture and the investigation is complete.



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  Reply # 1208200 4-Jan-2015 22:10
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Zippity:
gzt: ..................Circumstances are very similar.


The only circumstances that are similar is that the aircraft is no longer in the air - period!!


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11381734

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  Reply # 1208540 5-Jan-2015 13:47
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joker97:
Zippity:
gzt: ..................Circumstances are very similar.


The only circumstances that are similar is that the aircraft is no longer in the air - period!!


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11381734


What's your point? So NZ Herald posts an article supplied by Associated Press where some random uninformed "industry insider" speculates, and happens to ponder the same thing that someone on here did. 

Guess what? They don't know anything more than the geekzone member does about what happened. Noone, with perhaps the exception of the investigating team, knows more than anyone here about it. Why? Because there is ZERO evidence at this stage. A few bits of wreckage and some bodies don't tell much of a story in isolation. It is short sighted in the extreme to attempt to draw conclusions without having any evidence to hand, whether you're a member of an online forum, or a former airline executive, or even a member of the investigation team. If you don't have evidence, you can't make ANY claim as to what happened. 

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  Reply # 1208549 5-Jan-2015 13:56
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markl:
joker97:
Zippity:
gzt: ..................Circumstances are very similar.


The only circumstances that are similar is that the aircraft is no longer in the air - period!!


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11381734


What's your point? So NZ Herald posts an article supplied by Associated Press where some random uninformed "industry insider" speculates, and happens to ponder the same thing that someone on here did. 

Guess what? They don't know anything more than the geekzone member does about what happened. Noone, with perhaps the exception of the investigating team, knows more than anyone here about it. Why? Because there is ZERO evidence at this stage. A few bits of wreckage and some bodies don't tell much of a story in isolation. It is short sighted in the extreme to attempt to draw conclusions without having any evidence to hand, whether you're a member of an online forum, or a former airline executive, or even a member of the investigation team. If you don't have evidence, you can't make ANY claim as to what happened. 


Hard to disagree with you. For those of us who are avid watcheras of Air Crash Investigation, locating the real cause can be very very complex and time consuming.
Often its weird, odd, unlucky happenings that combine together to allow an accident to happen. The redundancies run out in that circumstance.

Hopefully the team will be as transparent as they can, thats quite likely given the three incidents that have happend in that area of the world.



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  Reply # 1208573 5-Jan-2015 14:21
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can't wait till they get the black box and start churning out proper information

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  Reply # 1208597 5-Jan-2015 14:35
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joker97: can't wait till they get the black box and start churning out proper information


I think they have the CVR. Hope that gives something, such as what the plane possibly and suddenly did that they had no time to use comms. They reckon it ascended at a high rate from an updraft, then decended at a high rate as in a downdraft. Makes sense as that happens in thunderstorms.   



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  Reply # 1208633 5-Jan-2015 16:09
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I don't think they have it yet. Those parameters were from some radar info?

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  Reply # 1208640 5-Jan-2015 16:22
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joker97: I don't think they have it yet. Those parameters were from some radar info?


OMG, your right, the article was about 8501 but had a photo of AF 447 CVR recovered.... Its not the first 8501 article that I thought, "Cool" only to find it was unrelated photos




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  Reply # 1213207 13-Jan-2015 14:44
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ok looks like Jakarta has the FlightDataRecorder ... they are still looking for the CockpitVoiceRecorder. i presume the CVR does not have a locator beacon/ping?

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/live-blog-retrieving-the/1583898.html 

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