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Mad Scientist
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  Reply # 1211787 10-Jan-2015 21:42
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sbiddle:
joker97: then it's a meter! pretty clear to me!


So if Uber are operating illegally, why did it take so long for the NZTA to realise? Surely that shows a complete an utter failing of the NZTA?




not sure - if they were pinged for illegal meter, it's a technicality but that's how laws work don't they? as to why it's taken so long, mauricio has the answer

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  Reply # 1211823 10-Jan-2015 22:19
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I have taken 24 trips with Uber since December 2014 and all but 2 of them were Taxi drivers, either past or current.  None of the taxi companies they drive for are members of the New Zealand Taxi Federation which are the ones complaining the most about Uber.

Given the driver starts and ends the trip with the app for timing and the GPS is used to measure distance I think it would be difficult to argue it isn't a meter since it's what calculates the fare.  However from what I've been able to understand this is the only area that Uber may run outside the rules in New Zealand.  If they agreed on a fixed fare at the start of the trip it should be OK since nothing needs to be metered.

Am very happy with the service overall and it has saved me quite a bit!

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  Reply # 1211827 10-Jan-2015 22:24
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richms: This is BS. Makes me want to take uber even more and not support the out of touch taxi industry who still act as if paying by plastic is something exotic and too much trouble for them to deal with.


yeah. thing is however, taxi drivers will hurt, not the company owners, as they pay a daily lease and live on commission.

but hey, if they are smart then maybe they should all quit and be Uber drivers ... if there is a legal way ...

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  Reply # 1211828 10-Jan-2015 22:27
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joker97:
sbiddle:
joker97: then it's a meter! pretty clear to me!


So if Uber are operating illegally, why did it take so long for the NZTA to realise? Surely that shows a complete an utter failing of the NZTA?




not sure - if they were pinged for illegal meter, it's a technicality but that's how laws work don't they? as to why it's taken so long, mauricio has the answer


The NZTA/Police/Govt HAVE known for ages, and has been trying to work with Uber to get them to comply with NZ laws.  As in other countries Uber are ignoring local laws and pushing ahead regardless...Google it, they make headlines all over the world with the way they operate.  It is illegal to use any kind of meter to determine a fare, to do that you must be a taxi, and belong to a taxi organisation (large costs and lots of rules). Uber have been allowed some time to change the way they operate to comply with NZ laws, and patience has finally run out, with tickets now being issued.

Either Uber has to change the way they work, or the laws have to be changed...until either of these happens, Uber drivers are operating illegally.    



 






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  Reply # 1211829 10-Jan-2015 22:29
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Who does these laws? They clearly need to be changed. I dont see why there needs to be a law preventing 2 parties from entering into an agreement for transportation if all the safety things are all good, which they are by nature of the P license.




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  Reply # 1211836 10-Jan-2015 22:55
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richms: Who does these laws? They clearly need to be changed. I dont see why there needs to be a law preventing 2 parties from entering into an agreement for transportation if all the safety things are all good, which they are by nature of the P license.


Taxi companies are required by law to manage all kinds of safety risks, just because someone passed a Police check doesn't mean they are fit to drive at all times. Taxi drivers are overseen, their work time is monitored (and audited) they have a formal complaints process, they have cameras in the main centers, and vehicles must meet a certain safety standard (checked and audited regularly).  They aren't perfect, but they have a lot more eyes watching what they do.  

I am not against a rule change, but that will take some time, and will probably destroy the taxi organisations overnight, so can't be taken lightly.  

   




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gzt

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  Reply # 1211841 10-Jan-2015 23:33
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My understanding is that Uber here is perfectly legal if
- the driver has the P endorsement
- passed the police check
- vehicle meets required standard and certification
- fare is pre-agreed on a private hire basis (ie; not metered)
It's unclear from the article what the Police allege the violation was.

I imagine if you manually waved down an uber vehicle and the driver accepted then that would violate the last point as current law is now.

It's hard to tell what the police or officer are or is alleging based on that source article.


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  Reply # 1211843 10-Jan-2015 23:45
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You cant wave a private car down or catch them from a rank, that is what seperates them from a taxi.

A taxi that you are just getting into on the side of the road with no idea who they are or what they are doing needs more government controls over it compared to a car which you pre-arrange thru a traceable company who can put their own processes in place to ensure safety.




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  Reply # 1211845 11-Jan-2015 00:14
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scuwp:
richms: Who does these laws? They clearly need to be changed. I dont see why there needs to be a law preventing 2 parties from entering into an agreement for transportation if all the safety things are all good, which they are by nature of the P license.


Taxi companies are required by law to manage all kinds of safety risks, just because someone passed a Police check doesn't mean they are fit to drive at all times. Taxi drivers are overseen, their work time is monitored (and audited) they have a formal complaints process, they have cameras in the main centers, and vehicles must meet a certain safety standard (checked and audited regularly).  They aren't perfect, but they have a lot more eyes watching what they do.  

I am not against a rule change, but that will take some time, and will probably destroy the taxi organisations overnight, so can't be taken lightly.  

   


Uber is also monitored and audited, has a formal complaints process, Vehicles must meet a certain safety standard etc, None are older than 2004, No they don't have cameras but everything is logged, the drivers, the passengers, Photo of the driver on the app etc

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  Reply # 1211852 11-Jan-2015 07:03
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If Uber is breaking the law the they should be proscecuted. Just the same as someone speeding, DUI, shoplifting etc etc. If Uber need a law change to operate then stop operating and lobby Government for a law change. When the law is changed to allow them to legally operate then start their business.

People need to grasp the concept that the law is not optional, they need to comply with it, the police are doing nothing wrong enforcing it.




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  Reply # 1211854 11-Jan-2015 07:29
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gzt: My understanding is that Uber here is perfectly legal if
- fare is pre-agreed on a private hire basis (ie; not metered)
and you have just answered your own wuestion! they were busted for not having a certified meter.
if uber want metered fares, they need to go and get their 'meter' certified

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  Reply # 1211860 11-Jan-2015 08:10
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While I agree that the taxi industry is broken in NZ and Uber is providing a much needed shake up, you have to look at it like this, no matter what your business model is you need to comply with the laws where you operate, Uber are required to have a certified meter and they don't.

The taxi industry need a rocket where the sun doesn't shine.


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  Reply # 1211863 11-Jan-2015 08:37
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If we will all just stop for a second and pause to have a mindset:

- Uber is not a taxi, rather a private driver
- Paypal is NOT a bank, rather a payments processor

Many people get them confused and then try and assert policies against what an organisation is not


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  Reply # 1211865 11-Jan-2015 08:44
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Surely a quick fix for Uber would be to charge based on the estimate (Google maps distance + time). That way the phone isn't acting as a meter. It isn't quite as accurate particularly in heavy congestion but mets the law without meeting full-blown taxi regulation

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  Reply # 1211866 11-Jan-2015 08:46
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scuwp:
joker97:
sbiddle:
joker97: then it's a meter! pretty clear to me!


So if Uber are operating illegally, why did it take so long for the NZTA to realise? Surely that shows a complete an utter failing of the NZTA?




not sure - if they were pinged for illegal meter, it's a technicality but that's how laws work don't they? as to why it's taken so long, mauricio has the answer


The NZTA/Police/Govt HAVE known for ages, and has been trying to work with Uber to get them to comply with NZ laws.  



This comment just adds further claim to my comment that the NZTA have suffered a major failing.

The NZTA are responsible for ensuring that operators registered by them are operating legally. If they are operating illegally and (as you claim) issued warning for half a year, action should have been taken immediately. This situation should not have been allowed to continue.



 

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