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  #1981890 23-Mar-2018 10:37
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itxtme:

 

MikeB4 the suggestion on the ground in Kapiti is that it did make money, but they are short of staff for those types of planes, and can use them on routes that are more lucrative like WLG to CHC.

 

@networkn - where your opinion differs from mine is that you hold no weight on the fact of who owns majority share and the fact they may have an opinion on these moves. Equally you hold no weight on the concept that a national carrier may have some responsibilities larger than just printing money for record profit after record profit.

 

 

 

 

I hold SOME weight on both of those things. The difference is how much, and also the fact that the Government as a major shareholder has prescribed ways it can approach these things, instead of letting Shane Jones carry on like a complete fool saying inflammatory things, with no way to back them up. 

 

Calling for the Chair's head is the height of stupidity, but it's the trademark of a NZF policitian. The chances are that Shane Jones has very little knowledge as to the real reasons behind these changes. 

 

If AirNZ came out and said it was going to cost 50M a year to support these regions and if the board accepted the Governments proposal, the dividend for ALL shareholders would cut by a specific amount ongoing, is it going to get shareholder approval?

 

 

 

I have no issue with the Government objecting to the changes and even asserting it's rights as a major share holder (or actually even as a minority), however I have a major issue with how it was done, how ineffective it was but how it caused people to get all emotional about it, when it's a logic problem. 

 

They need to raise their concerns through the correct channels, but then in my view if this was done every time, NZF wouldn't have a reason to exist. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  #1981892 23-Mar-2018 10:38
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elpenguino:

 

if that's a shot at me you'll have to note I didn't comment on the financial merits of pulling the service one way or the other .

 

 

It wasn't a shot at anyone (well slightly at people like Shane Jones and Mayors of affected areas) , it was a general comment made about emotional vs logical arguments. If you feel that applies to you, then ok, but if not, don't worry about it :) 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #1981896 23-Mar-2018 10:41
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networkn:

 

elpenguino:

 

if that's a shot at me you'll have to note I didn't comment on the financial merits of pulling the service one way or the other .

 

 

It wasn't a shot at anyone (well slightly at people like Shane Jones and Mayors of affected areas) , it was a general comment made about emotional vs logical arguments. If you feel that applies to you, then ok, but if not, don't worry about it :) 

 

 

 

 

Ah , your quoting led me to that conclusion.

 

Belay the handbag !!


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  #1981898 23-Mar-2018 10:45
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MikeB4: If those routes were making a profit I am certain the AirNZ management would keep hold of them, there is no logic in handing profit to competitors.



There’s been claims by some that the Kapiti route is profitable; it’s potentially more an issue that Air NZ believes it can extract more of a profit from diverting those resources to another route.


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  #1981909 23-Mar-2018 10:55
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jonathan18:
MikeB4: If those routes were making a profit I am certain the AirNZ management would keep hold of them, there is no logic in handing profit to competitors.


There’s been claims by some that the Kapiti route is profitable; it’s potentially more an issue that Air NZ believes it can extract more of a profit from diverting those resources to another route.

 

 

 

Surely that's good business... We see banks do it with their branch locations too...

 

 

 

It astounds me the uproar that people seem to think that domestic/low volume routes should be subsidised - and then they remark about how they can fly to Australia for less... They then fail to consider the overheads of small aircraft vs large on a per-seat basis, and even the fuel burn of a flight (say) from Auckland to Wellington. A large portion of fuel is used getting that aircraft to its cruise altitude and then they power back for x minutes until they descend... You'll find the per km fuel burn rate much higher on the smaller routes...

 

 

 

The options here for them are:

 

  • Ensure all routes are profitable and maximise profit by focussing on the best performing routes
  • Subsidise the poorer routes with the dearer ones (and will a punter flying to Australia really accept - hey you're paying $50 so we can fly a 30 seater (or whatever) into Kerikeri)
  • Make all the routes cheaper and make less/no profit (and then not pay dividends to the investors of which Government is one) and later on ask for a bailout from Government
  •  

I wonder if the dividends returned to the Government so far has actually been enough to cover the cost of the bailout in the first place.


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  #1981958 23-Mar-2018 11:08
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DaveDog

 

I wonder if the dividends returned to the Government so far has actually been enough to cover the cost of the bailout in the first place.

 

 

I don't believe so, but they still have their "asset" so it's not really a big problem. 

 

Their asset has increased hugely in value. 

 

 




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  #1981959 23-Mar-2018 11:08
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I have heard from multiple sources that Air NZ overcharges on domestic routes where it can get away with it to subsidise International ones. I don't know if this is true but a lot of people seem to believe it is. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  #1981960 23-Mar-2018 11:09
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Rikkitic:

 

I have heard from multiple sources that Air NZ overcharges on domestic routes where it can get away with it to subsidise International ones. I don't know if this is true but a lot of people seem to believe it is. 

 

 

 

 

Conjecture. I'd like to see some facts to support that.

 

 


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  #1981963 23-Mar-2018 11:13
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networkn:

 

DaveDog

 

I wonder if the dividends returned to the Government so far has actually been enough to cover the cost of the bailout in the first place.

 

 

I don't believe so, but they still have their "asset" so it's not really a big problem. 

 

Their asset has increased hugely in value. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So the asset has increased in value which is probably a good thing. It's safe to say, that if the airline was not returning a profit (which some people seem to think it shouldn't) then that asset would not be worth what it is.


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  #1981971 23-Mar-2018 11:23
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So the asset has increased in value which is probably a good thing. It's safe to say, that if the airline was not returning a profit (which some people seem to think it shouldn't) then that asset would not be worth what it is.

 

 

Well logically this is true, however, some companies (tech usually) end up with massive values despite never returning a profit. Netflix Et al. 

 

Having said that, in this case it's probably true. 

 

If it failed to make a profit for 1-2 years and there was a good reason, then the company value wouldn't likely contract much, but without a good reason, it would take a hiding. 

 

 

 

 


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  #1981989 23-Mar-2018 11:47
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All this chatter about regional fares reminds me when I was on the other side, ground at wellington.

 

Some punter would arrive late for his $69 grabaseat Wellington to Auckland

 

First you break the news that it was a use it or lose it (That was fun!)

 

Then they tell you "Well get me on the next flight"

 

"Sure that will be $469 as there are only standard fares left "

 

You know that look people give you when they want to rip your heart out and stomp on it?





Is an English Man living in New Zealand. Not a writer, an Observer he says. Graham is a seasoned 'traveler" with his sometimes arrogant, but honest opinion on life. He loves the Internet!.

 

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  #1982006 23-Mar-2018 11:54
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gnfb:

 

All this chatter about regional fares reminds me when I was on the other side, ground at wellington.

 

Some punter would arrive late for his $69 grabaseat Wellington to Auckland

 

First you break the news that it was a use it or lose it (That was fun!)

 

Then they tell you "Well get me on the next flight"

 

"Sure that will be $469 as there are only standard fares left "

 

You know that look people give you when they want to rip your heart out and stomp on it?

 

 

 

 

Maybe this is off topic - but maybe I'm just plain abnormal in my belief that if you buy a ticket that leaves at time Y and you need to have checked by time X then that's it ... It isn't X+5 or X+10 ... I would expect to receive that very treatment should I not be there on time.




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  #1982348 23-Mar-2018 20:35
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I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #1982353 23-Mar-2018 20:44
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Oh for God's sake. "Force the airline"?

It's a business, that's owned by its shareholders. It's not a plaything to be directed by idiot mayors.

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  #1982355 23-Mar-2018 20:48
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Rikkitic:

 

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018637516/air-nz-has-lost-the-identity-as-nz-s-national-carrier

 

 

 

 

 

 

RNZ will reach the level of Stuff soon. Shall we call Jetstar our national carrier then or Sounds Air that will impress the tourists.





Mike

 

Consultant

 


The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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