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old3eyes
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  #2282838 24-Jul-2019 14:52
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noroad:

 

mkissin:

 

The problem is that the funds are stored on your Hop card, and have to get there somehow.

 

When you top up online, that transaction has to propagate out to each of the terminals. When you tap on, the terminal notices that you have a credit and adds it to your card. If the terminal you tap on to doesn't have your credit in its list then it won't happen. The main issue is with the terminals on buses, as I think those only update the transaction list once a day. If you add the transaction and tap on at a terminal connected to the network then it can happen instantly.

 

Yes, it's very annoying and I've been bitten by it several times, to the point of having several top-ups expire and needing to have them refunded under the old system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea, its a horrific system. So the way I understand it (I could be totally wrong!), all the bus terminals get a batch list off all the top ups overnight (or within network range of base) so if you topped up online that will not have got to a terminal to push that to your card when you tap on the same day (allowing extra for non-processing days/times). If you top up at the bus station terminal then it can instantly push it to your card. With such a system of course the file with all the pending top up's can only be so big as it has to go to every terminal until its been confirmed pushed to the card, hence the need to expire top up's that have not been "redeemed" to a card.

 

It's beyond me how AT paid so much for such a system, yes it can operate without realtime data access to the terminals, which would have been fantastic in the 1G (analogue)/2G mobile days but its really pretty poor in today's real-time connected world.

 

 

Interesting that Queensland Translink online topup only takes an hour to appear on  your card.  What are they doing that AT finds too hard??

 

 





Regards,

Old3eyes


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xpd

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  #2282861 24-Jul-2019 15:15
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old3eyes:

 

Interesting that Queensland Translink online topup only takes an hour to appear on  your card.  What are they doing that AT finds too hard??

 

 

I've come across some god awful database developers in NZ, yet are highly regarded by their clients etc. I'd say thats what happened with AT........

 

 

 

One I know was asked to make a database and front end that would talk with MYOB, and be able to handle probably 100 queries a day (ie: nothing in the scheme of things). He insisted using Access for it, claimed he'd done it lots of times before. 5 years later it still wasnt working and he had moved other clients to mySQL.....  

 

 





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wellygary
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  #2282873 24-Jul-2019 15:25
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xpd:

 

old3eyes:

 

Interesting that Queensland Translink online topup only takes an hour to appear on  your card.  What are they doing that AT finds too hard??

 

 

I've come across some god awful database developers in NZ, yet are highly regarded by their clients etc. I'd say thats what happened with AT........

 

 

AT HOP was an off the shelf product that AT/NZTA  bought from Thales, I'm pretty sure there was minimal local development,




old3eyes
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  #2282877 24-Jul-2019 15:46
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wellygary:

 

xpd:

 

old3eyes:

 

Interesting that Queensland Translink online topup only takes an hour to appear on  your card.  What are they doing that AT finds too hard??

 

 

I've come across some god awful database developers in NZ, yet are highly regarded by their clients etc. I'd say thats what happened with AT........

 

 

AT HOP was an off the shelf product that AT/NZTA  bought from Thales, I'm pretty sure there was minimal local development,

 

 

I think you're correct. 





Regards,

Old3eyes


Zepanda66
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  #2282895 24-Jul-2019 16:06
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xpd:

 

Don't get me started with AT....... but yes, its been an ongoing question. Funny thing is, they can take money off your card in 0.5s flat, but to get it back is at least a weeks wait.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually had this problem just this afternoon. I tried twice with two $10 top ups ended up spending $15 more than I initially planned to it came up with an error but conveniently the money was still taken out of my account the error message seemed to try and blame my debit card and said to contact my bank. I tried a third time with a $5 top up and it finally went through. Little glitches like that just show how broken it is. 





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Sounddude
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  #2282944 24-Jul-2019 16:25
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I don't understand why they can't just accept Debit/Credit cards like London does.....No issues with topups, just tap and go.

 

AT bought a dud system


wellygary
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  #2282963 24-Jul-2019 16:47
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Sounddude:

 

I don't understand why they can't just accept Debit/Credit cards like London does.....No issues with topups, just tap and go.

 

AT bought a dud system

 

 

AT /NZTA tendered for their system over 10 years ago, and Thales were the winner ( after a whole lots of lawsuits and complaints from a local provider who shall not be named) - it was originally planned that it would become a national ticketing system - but the Wellington regional council and the above provider put paid to that...

 

The specs at the time were based on mid 2000s ,so paywave and NFC were still gleams in the eyes of bleeding edge developers (nothing that a conservative government department would be seen dead in adopting)

 

HOP can be made to handle tokens, but it  requires development money , something neither AT or NZTA are willing to fund,

 

NZTA are about to go through the whole process again with a new nationwide ticketing contract called project NEXT.... and AT have said they will likely adopt it as a replacement for AT HOP in the future...




sbiddle
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  #2283047 24-Jul-2019 19:58
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Sounddude:

 

I don't understand why they can't just accept Debit/Credit cards like London does.....No issues with topups, just tap and go.

 

AT bought a dud system

 

 

Until the government does something about credit card interchange rates it'll never be a serious option anyway. The costs of using credit card for large scale billing are far soo high. The government and they don't seem interested at present anyway - the MBIE report was due in 2017 before the election but delayed until after the election. It was then delayed again last year and is now MIA.

 

You'd think NZers effectively being ripped off hundreds of millions of dollars a year by the credit card companies would be something Labour might be interested in fixing, but they don't seem to care. Australia proposed and implemented its changes while we've simply been talking about it.

 

 


Kyanar
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  #2283280 25-Jul-2019 09:49
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old3eyes:

 

Interesting that Queensland Translink online topup only takes an hour to appear on  your card.  What are they doing that AT finds too hard??

 

 

Translink doesn't guarantee an hour, they specify up to 48 hours. Like HOP, the Translink buses still need to drive past a wifi access point to download a new batch of updates to apply your topup. However also like HOP if you have an autotopup instruction on the card, the requirement is abated because when it goes under the autotopup amount the reader will add the topup amount to the card without validating and the backoffice will be instructed to charge your card during the next batch update. Unlike HOP however, Translink will batch a deduction to your transit card instead of a block if the credit card transaction fails. The main difference is DTMR/Translink installed wifi access points at all the interchange points and major busway stations, and operate a more centralised "hub and spokes" bus service, directing all buses to major interchanges to get from point to point, than AT does with the mishmash of regional routes.

 

Translink's system is the Cubic product also used in San Francisco Bay Area (BART/Clipper), London (Oyster), Los Angeles, Sydney (Opal) and a number of other jurisdictions. They are also, at this moment, in the middle of a $395 million project to replace it including support for tokenised credit card transactions (which Sydney has also done). There is a specific Mastercard interchange rate for transit use, which Visa does not have and to my knowledge is not (yet) in the Mastercard NZ pricing structure.


old3eyes
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  #2283287 25-Jul-2019 10:02
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Kyanar:

 

old3eyes:

 

Interesting that Queensland Translink online topup only takes an hour to appear on  your card.  What are they doing that AT finds too hard??

 

 

Translink doesn't guarantee an hour, they specify up to 48 hours. Like HOP, the Translink buses still need to drive past a wifi access point to download a new batch of updates to apply your topup. However also like HOP if you have an autotopup instruction on the card, the requirement is abated because when it goes under the autotopup amount the reader will add the topup amount to the card without validating and the backoffice will be instructed to charge your card during the next batch update. Unlike HOP however, Translink will batch a deduction to your transit card instead of a block if the credit card transaction fails. The main difference is DTMR/Translink installed wifi access points at all the interchange points and major busway stations, and operate a more centralised "hub and spokes" bus service, directing all buses to major interchanges to get from point to point, than AT does with the mishmash of regional routes.

 

Translink's system is the Cubic product also used in San Francisco Bay Area (BART/Clipper), London (Oyster), Los Angeles, Sydney (Opal) and a number of other jurisdictions. They are also, at this moment, in the middle of a $395 million project to replace it including support for tokenised credit card transactions (which Sydney has also done). There is a specific Mastercard interchange rate for transit use, which Visa does not have and to my knowledge is not (yet) in the Mastercard NZ pricing structure.

 

 

Thanx for the info which is very handy to know..

 

According to Translinks user guide 

 

"The maximum top up amount is $200 for
phone or online. In most instances, the money
will be available on your go card within an hour.
It won’t appear on your travel balance until you
touch on at a card reader."

 

From that I interpenetrated it to mean that you should see the  balance online within an hour but as you say may take time to get to the readers on buses trains and trams. . 

 

Just hope my new "10 Year " doesn't expire like my last 10 year one , after 3 years.  Trying to get about $59 per two old cards transferred to the new cards but as I don't live there  I have to get someone within Ozzy to send the transfer / refund  sheets in.  My niece is coming over next month so I'll give her the stuff to post. 





Regards,

Old3eyes


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