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  #2479923 9-May-2020 19:59
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Ruphus:

 

This article mentions fares increasing due to reduced capacity to account for social distancing. Also there's an example of the fare increase. Yes, not the most reputable news source.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121462158/air-nz-cancellations-leave-kiwis-out-in-the-cold

 

 

 

I wonder what the response would be if retailers started using this tactic for 'click and collect' purchases. Charging people more when they come to collect their items and then not offering refunds.

 

 

Hardly the best story either...

 

I looked at the Air NZ website after I read that that earlier and it was possible to get from AKL-DUN for $287 each way down Sat back Sun which is well within the normal range he pays.

 

As there are still only limited flight options even under L2 to get from from AKL to DUN next weekend you have to fly via CHC rather than direct, and there are only very limited flight options so only 1 possible flight option each way.

 

I'm not sure your analogy could be compared to an airline? Most retailers don't have 20+ different price points options for the very same product which is effectively what an airline has factoring in different fare class and fare basis options.

 

 


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  #2479950 9-May-2020 21:00
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sbiddle:

 

 

 

Hardly the best story either...

 

I looked at the Air NZ website after I read that that earlier and it was possible to get from AKL-DUN for $287 each way down Sat back Sun which is well within the normal range he pays

 

 

 

 

Or how about double what he normally pays

 

"If I booked well ahead, I could usually get return flights for $240 to $290. I had a quick look at next weekend and they're $360 each way."


 
 
 
 


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  #2479961 9-May-2020 21:13
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cshwone:

 

sbiddle:

 

 

 

Hardly the best story either...

 

I looked at the Air NZ website after I read that that earlier and it was possible to get from AKL-DUN for $287 each way down Sat back Sun which is well within the normal range he pays

 

 

 

 

Or how about double what he normally pays

 

"If I booked well ahead, I could usually get return flights for $240 to $290. I had a quick look at next weekend and they're $360 each way."

 

 

Oops I missed the return bit.. But having said that comparing last minute fares to booking well ahead is hardly a fair comparison - if you looked a week out for these flights any normal week of the year they probably wouldn't be much different to what they are right now.

 

 


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Ultimate Geek


  #2479984 9-May-2020 22:49
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cisconz:

 

NPCtom:

 

Does anyone know when POLi processes refunds?

 

 

I got told up to 12 weeks.

 


Really? 12 weeks??






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Ultimate Geek


  #2479987 9-May-2020 23:02
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surfisup1000:

 

You have excluded the important words from the T&C.

 

Yes, no refund when I cancel my flights depending on ticket class. 

 

But, you are well aware that it is Air NZ who cancelled the flights. 

 

T&C's for Air NZ initiated cancellations are the same no matter how much I paid. 

 

Here are the T&C's on my ticket...

 

"Sometimes your flight might:

 

be cancelled

 

....

 

When these solutions aren't available, or don't resolve the matter for you, we will give you either a refund or a credit.  "

 

So a 'Refund' is listed as an option.   I'd be happy to take a 50% refund. 

 

 

 

[Edit] Even better, in the fine print...

 

15.1 When does Air New Zealand give refunds?
You may be eligible for a refund or partial refund if you purchased a Ticket and we:

 

cancelled your flight due to something in our control, and we were unable to book you onto another flight

 

 

 

I would make the argument, that at level 2 Air NZ were able to operate this flight. Thats what this comes down to. Whether Air NZ had a choice to operate this flight. Air NZ might say they had no choice and I'd accept that if they have a good reason. 

 

 

 

 

I would suggest the fine print doesn't help you at all.

 

Air New Zealand can argue that at level 2, they're obliged to reduce capacity to confirm to social distancing - therefore your flight being cancelled is outside of their control as they've had to reschedule and rebook to apply to those rules under Level 2.


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  #2480073 10-May-2020 07:38
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NPCtom:

 

cisconz:

 

I got told up to 12 weeks.

 


Really? 12 weeks??

 

 

better than not getting a refund




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  #2480098 10-May-2020 09:19
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DaveDog:

 

I would suggest the fine print doesn't help you at all.

 

Air New Zealand can argue that at level 2, they're obliged to reduce capacity to confirm to social distancing - therefore your flight being cancelled is outside of their control as they've had to reschedule and rebook to apply to those rules under Level 2.

 

 

Yes, that information has recently come to light and I accept that Air NZ has acted correctly. 

 

However, they could have explained this in the email they sent. 

 

Although I find it ironic that Air NZ international flights have no social distancing rules. Does coronavirus not travel internationally? 


 
 
 
 


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  #2480113 10-May-2020 09:58
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sbiddle:

gmball:


I have seen many times in the past 24 hours, Air NZ confirming that you wont pay any extra to fly the same route you originally booked, the flight will just be at a different time of the day. So its not a case of cancel all the cheaper bookings so you can charge more when you re-book.



Do you have a source for that please?


It's not something I have seen in any press release nor in any media story, and is certainly very different from what I've read - which has been numerous people complaining flights have been cancelled, they've been given a credit, and that new flights are now more expensive.


 


 


 



I saw a tweet from Cam Wallace that seemed to confirm the emails that were sent out omitted the fact that you could rebook on a new flight for the same day at no extra charge. Think it was Friday night. As it was pointed out what he was saying on twitter (that you’d be able to rebook same day, no extra charge) contradicted the emails.

I’ve not seen it anywhere else though.

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  #2480114 10-May-2020 09:59
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DaveDog:

 

I would suggest the fine print doesn't help you at all.

 

Air New Zealand can argue that at level 2, they're obliged to reduce capacity to confirm to social distancing - therefore your flight being cancelled is outside of their control as they've had to reschedule and rebook to apply to those rules under Level 2.

 

 

Not so sure about that.  They are not not obliged to cancel flights under level 2, in fact more flights would mean more capacity to spread people out. Lets not kid ourselves here, its a financial decision as many of those flights are likely very empty.  I would say there argument for forcing credit is on very shaky ground under level 2, and equally somebody may have an argument for compensation under the CAA act as legally there is nothing forcing Air NZ to not fly those routes. 

I have to say I have been underwhelmed with the general approach, communication and execution by Air NZ through Covid.


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Ultimate Geek


  #2480395 10-May-2020 12:05
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surfisup1000:

DaveDog:


I would suggest the fine print doesn't help you at all.


Air New Zealand can argue that at level 2, they're obliged to reduce capacity to confirm to social distancing - therefore your flight being cancelled is outside of their control as they've had to reschedule and rebook to apply to those rules under Level 2.



Yes, that information has recently come to light and I accept that Air NZ has acted correctly. 


However, they could have explained this in the email they sent. 


Although I find it ironic that Air NZ international flights have no social distancing rules. Does coronavirus not travel internationally? 



That’s where it gets interesting. The law that applies is generally that of the country that the aircraft is registered in - so assuming that their aircraft are NZ registered, I don’t think we’ve heard the last of that.

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Ultimate Geek


  #2480397 10-May-2020 12:07
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itxtme:

DaveDog:


I would suggest the fine print doesn't help you at all.


Air New Zealand can argue that at level 2, they're obliged to reduce capacity to confirm to social distancing - therefore your flight being cancelled is outside of their control as they've had to reschedule and rebook to apply to those rules under Level 2.



Not so sure about that.  They are not not obliged to cancel flights under level 2, in fact more flights would mean more capacity to spread people out. Lets not kid ourselves here, its a financial decision as many of those flights are likely very empty.  I would say there argument for forcing credit is on very shaky ground under level 2, and equally somebody may have an argument for compensation under the CAA act as legally there is nothing forcing Air NZ to not fly those routes. 

I have to say I have been underwhelmed with the general approach, communication and execution by Air NZ through Covid.



They’re not obliged to cancel flights no. But if they were to change say from a smaller to larger aircraft, to increase capacity to assist with social distancing then that would require a cancellation.

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  #2480399 10-May-2020 12:15
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DaveDog:

They’re not obliged to cancel flights no. But if they were to change say from a smaller to larger aircraft, to increase capacity to assist with social distancing then that would require a cancellation.

 

No requirement to cancel based on an aircraft change.  The booking equates to the Flight Number which is for a given route at a given time. Aircraft type is not relevant.


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  #2497683 3-Jun-2020 21:09
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Looks like Air NZ are not covering themselves in glory on the subject of refunds.

The tide is turning. I bet they end up having to refund in the end.





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  #2497919 4-Jun-2020 08:41
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Geektastic: Looks like Air NZ are not covering themselves in glory on the subject of refunds.

The tide is turning. I bet they end up having to refund in the end.

 

It wouldn't surprise me that in a 18 months time when the credits are due to expire that Air NZ may offer some flexibility. When they actually have solid revenue coming in and aren't burning through tens of millions of dollars per month in cash it'll be a very different ballgame.

 

And I disagree that the tide is turning. Yes more people might be complaining, but the simple fact is there is *zero* legal requirement under current laws that require Air NZ to refund. It doesn't matter how far the tide turns the sign on the beach still says no swimming..

 

If people want to push for law changes they'll also need to push for the Govt to maybe give Air NZ loan for a few hundred million with zero interest for ~3 years so they can refund passengers because a scenario like this is probably the only one under which Air NZ would give up all their cash.

 

The other thing to add to this is that there are still a lot of people complaining about things that have already been answered but they're clearly not reading communications from Air NZ. Yes communication for many things has clearly not been the best, but when some people aren't willing to take basic steps to help themselves such as reading emails or even looking at the front page of the Air NZ website I'm not sure they will ever be happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 




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  #2497973 4-Jun-2020 09:13
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sbiddle:

 

And I disagree that the tide is turning. Yes more people might be complaining, but the simple fact is there is *zero* legal requirement under current laws that require Air NZ to refund. It doesn't matter how far the tide turns the sign on the beach still says no swimming..

 

 

For sure. And retrospective law changes are very rare for good reason, so people shouldn't bank on the possibility of any covid-19 related ticket refund. 

 

But, that is not to say the government won't look at flight cancellation laws in future, bringing New Zealand into line with other countries. My view is that for 'act of god' events, credits are a good trade-off between the customer and airline. Perhaps a '50% refund' could also be a future option, such that both parties share the pain for act of god disasters.  

 

For my personal situation, domestic flights are slowly returning to normal, and , prices are even looking semi-reasonable.  I spoke with Air NZ a few weeks back and they said they were enhancing their online booking so people can use their cancellation credits to pay for new flight bookings.   Sooner the better....manual processing is painful.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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