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  #2499996 7-Jun-2020 11:09
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Batman:

 

Geektastic: If Air NZ can’t function without taxpayers money, the business should be sold or wound up.

 

if you live on the edge of the planet and you want to get food, laptops and urgent medical supllies flown in I think it's important to have an airline.

 

though the business will have to contract and shrink.

 

 

 

 

Incorrect. You merely require the facilities for aircraft to land and take off. ANY airline can - and would - do the things you mention. AFAIK we do not own an international container ship line - yet containers arrive.

 

 

 

It's just that some people will be too proud to admit that we could do it without our own airline. The taxpayers own a huge amount of Air NZ yet they are rarely competitive on international travel, so you could argue that in fact it is a bad investment for the taxpayer to run a local airline because we do not even benefit from lower fares and we would be better off buying a chunk of a more global airline.

 

What we should NOT do is just refuse to be realistic (or even examine the alternatives properly) about the economics based on hubris. It might be that maintaining our own airline is the best economic solution or it may not - and we should take the economically more advatageous answer. 






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  #2500055 7-Jun-2020 14:27
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I couldn't disagree with you anymore geektastic .

It's good strategically for NZ to have an airline based here. For example, in recent times you could in theory charter any plane to repatriate covid refugees but with the world wide restrictions on transit, direct to NZ flights were much easier to organise.

There are other times , for example conflict, when having aircraft under your command will be the only way to move people and freight around.

AFAIK air NZ has been profitable for years so it just has to ride out this tough patch.

 
 
 
 


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  #2500333 8-Jun-2020 09:36
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I still don't understand why I have to call them to use the credit.

 

It should be seen under the airpoints account, or using the previous booking number as a voucher / coupon on the booking page, job done :)

 

They even emailed that it takes a long time to get through the phone if I want to use the credits under Level 1 :(


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  #2500337 8-Jun-2020 10:03
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engedib:

 

I still don't understand why I have to call them to use the credit.

 

It should be seen under the airpoints account, or using the previous booking number as a voucher / coupon on the booking page, job done :)

 

They even emailed that it takes a long time to get through the phone if I want to use the credits under Level 1 :(

 

 

I understand they are already working on this and it could be ready by next month.

 

Credit and Refund Information


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  #2501036 8-Jun-2020 23:36
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I read a suggestion somewhere that Air NZ ought to have just given people Air Points Dollars as the credit. Seemed quite sensible and straightforward.

 

 

 

My wife has an Emirates ticket to London which they recently wrote to her about. It is a cheap ($1700 return) economy flight. Non refundable. Non changeable etc.

 

 

 

They offered her choice of

 

 

 

1) A free change

 

2) Credit (with 500 bonus Emirates points and USD$60)

 

3) A full refund

 

 

 

Air NZ are really starting to lose in the court of public opinion now.






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  #2501098 9-Jun-2020 08:05
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Geektastic:

 

I read a suggestion somewhere that Air NZ ought to have just given people Air Points Dollars as the credit. Seemed quite sensible and straightforward.

 

 

I really, really, really wish people would stop thinking this is somehow the best option. It's something so many people keep suggesting, and seems to be the favoured option of RNZ Checkpoint and talkback radio armchair experts, and it really just shows how most people actually know so little about what they're talking about.

 

Offering Airpoints as a credit simply is not a possible option for a multitude of reasons. I've already written a lot about this, so once again I'll do it again.

 

Firstly (and most significantly) Airpoints rewards flights offer zero earn for SP and APD for flights. This would mean anybody booking a flight would now earn no points for the flight. Changing the rules so that some flights could earn and others didn't would be an absolute nightmare. It would also offer some pretty significant loopholes.

 

Secondly it would simply give people a way to effectively get their cash back by using partner rewards. Air NZ are trying to limit cash burn, not increase it. Plenty of airlines around the world have all limited FPP rewards to partners to stop this very scenario.

 

Thirdly the tax implications are a very significant issue that is a nightmare for Air NZ. People have credits for flights with GST (domestic) and no GST (international) along with taxes and charges for the flights that will vary from around $20 on a domestic flight up to around $200 on an international flight to Australia. All of this has to be accounted for correctly - and significantly Air NZ are going to have pretty significant losses when they absorb the GST for domestic flights booked by people with credits for international flights where they paid GST.

 

Air NZ's solution which they've announced (and have been working on for a while) is to offer a solution similar to APD - you will see a balance of credits that are used in the same way as APD, but they're not APD.

 

As of their February annual report Air NZ had around $1.3 billion in forward bookings as of the 31st Dec - that really shows the scale of the potential issue. To compare Air NZ to Emirates when it comes to refunds isn't really fair in part due to decisions made by NZ - we eliminated the virus but now our borders must remain shut and could now well be shut for another year or even longer. That's going to mean minimal revenue from their entire international network, and is going to be the biggest challenge NZ as a country (and Air NZ as an airline) has to face.

 

Emirates have a growing international  network because flights are starting to resume internationally to a lot of countries where the virus is now contained. The world is going to open up pretty quickly, but NZ will remain pretty isolated for fear of having new cases. This means they have cash coming in that can be used to refund existing customers.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2501100 9-Jun-2020 08:08
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Geektastic:

 

 

 

My wife has an Emirates ticket to London which they recently wrote to her about. It is a cheap ($1700 return) economy flight. Non refundable. Non changeable etc.

 

 

 

 

Yep. Good comparison (not). Compare an airline that is completely government owned, that pays no tax and has a ‘take it or leave it’ attitude to industrial relations, with our own, which despite being 52% government owned has had no additional support (ie more than the wage subsidy) apart from a loan offer at above market rates. Don’t forget, it is the government that has basically grounded AirNZ through its (mainly justified) health response. Maybe if the government offered to ‘forgive’ any of the $900million loan used to refund customers as part of the general money shower that might help.





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  #2501102 9-Jun-2020 08:15
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Dingbatt:

 

Geektastic:

 

 

 

My wife has an Emirates ticket to London which they recently wrote to her about. It is a cheap ($1700 return) economy flight. Non refundable. Non changeable etc.

 

 

 

 

Yep. Good comparison (not). Compare an airline that is completely government owned, that pays no tax and has a ‘take it or leave it’ attitude to industrial relations, with our own, which despite being 52% government owned has had no additional support (ie more than the wage subsidy) apart from a loan offer at above market rates. Don’t forget, it is the government that has basically grounded AirNZ through its (mainly justified) health response. Maybe if the government offered to ‘forgive’ any of the $900million loan used to refund customers as part of the general money shower that might help.

 

 

+1

 

I've said it before and like a stuck record I'll say it again. If people want refunds they should be pressuring he Government to offer Air NZ a few hundred million interest free to do this. The Government have made this pretty clear that this will not be happening.

 

 

 

 


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  #2501144 9-Jun-2020 08:27
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Geektastic: Air NZ are really starting to lose in the court of public opinion now.

 

 

 

I personally have had no problem dealing with rebooking three return domestic flights using credits.

 

The wait times are long on the phone (understandable) so I have just used the call back feature on their website, and everytime it has been a seamless experience to rebook.

 

Even after one flight was rescheduled a week after rebooking they called me the next day to offer alternative times/flights which were sorted out quickly.


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  #2501845 10-Jun-2020 09:44
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engedib:

 

I still don't understand why I have to call them to use the credit.

 

It should be seen under the airpoints account, or using the previous booking number as a voucher / coupon on the booking page, job done :)

 

They even emailed that it takes a long time to get through the phone if I want to use the credits under Level 1 :(

 

 

 

 

This.

 

I have credit for some flights cancelled in April and have not received any information on how to use them. Would have thought crediting to your airpoints account or allowing you to use the booking reference as a voucher code would be the easiest way. Thankfully it's not a huge amount of money like others who had booked international flights (it was a only a return trip from Wellington to Hamilton to see my parents) so I don't mind having a credit rather than refund, but keen to be able to use it to rebook.


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  #2502128 10-Jun-2020 11:13
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CrashAndBurn:

 

engedib:

 

I still don't understand why I have to call them to use the credit.

 

It should be seen under the airpoints account, or using the previous booking number as a voucher / coupon on the booking page, job done :)

 

They even emailed that it takes a long time to get through the phone if I want to use the credits under Level 1 :(

 

 

I understand they are already working on this and it could be ready by next month.

 

Credit and Refund Information

 

 

It's been over 3 months and I still haven't got my refund or credit (they said they'd refund, even got a receipt!)





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.




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  #2502174 10-Jun-2020 11:58
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Batman:

 

It's been over 3 months and I still haven't got my refund or credit (they said they'd refund, even got a receipt!)

 

 

Air New Zealands communication has been incredibly poor from the start.

 

But, I think it is pretty clear how to claim your credit by now.

 

If they said you can have a refund and have evidence, call them.

 

 


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  #2503233 11-Jun-2020 21:15
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One guy I read about paid for his cancelled flights with APD and can't even get them back..!






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  #2503376 12-Jun-2020 09:37
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Geektastic:

 

One guy I read about paid for his cancelled flights with APD and can't even get them back..!

 

 

Why would you? Clearly he didn't purchase a refundable ticket so he's no different to any other customer seeking a refund. How you paid for the ticket makes zero difference, the fare rules are the only thing if interest.

 

Any refundable ticket purchased with APD is refunded back as APD immediately if you ask for a refund rather than a credit.

 

 

 

 


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