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216 posts

Master Geek


  #2522673 14-Jul-2020 13:22
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tdgeek:

This is the Cooks Travel Bubble thread, not the wage subsidy thread



True, the same issues our tourism industry is suffering here is many times worse in Raro. Unfortunate for them the decision won’t be made until after our election because Jacinda Ardern won’t risk having it blow up in her face.

They are trying hard to keep their own businesses afloat and they don’t have a domestic tourism market up there, but there are other low risk countries who may be interested in sending their business to the Cooks if we don’t. One in particular loves throwing very, very large sums of money through the Pacific.

The risks are there, but less risk than opening to Australia. But one day we are going to have to accept the risk to open up, especially as there is more mounting evidence that long term immunity is not guaranteed.

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  #2522677 14-Jul-2020 13:38
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empacher48:
tdgeek:


This is the Cooks Travel Bubble thread, not the wage subsidy thread




True, the same issues our tourism industry is suffering here is many times worse in Raro. Unfortunate for them the decision won’t be made until after our election because Jacinda Ardern won’t risk having it blow up in her face.

They are trying hard to keep their own businesses afloat and they don’t have a domestic tourism market up there, but there are other low risk countries who may be interested in sending their business to the Cooks if we don’t. One in particular loves throwing very, very large sums of money through the Pacific.

The risks are there, but less risk than opening to Australia. But one day we are going to have to accept the risk to open up, especially as there is more mounting evidence that long term immunity is not guaranteed.


Do you have a link for "decision won’t be made until after our election"


Tourism, what can you do? You open it up to Australia, USA and UK, or you don't / can't. Its obvious we cant, so it is what it is, there is no option. Cant pay wage subsidies forever. Cooks can have our tourists, its safe enough


 
 
 
 


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  #2522692 14-Jul-2020 13:58
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tdgeek:

 

I dont think its the media "It follows the Deputy Prime Minister of the Cook Islands, Mark Brown, telling the AM Show that an announcement about quarantine-free travel could be expected “within a week”.

 

 

It's "an announcement about quarantine-free travel", not "an announcement that quarantine-free will start" and not "an announcement that quarantine-free will start that day". The announcement within a week could be something as bland as "Both governments think it's a good idea", or that "the governments will make another announcement in a month's time" or that "flights will start in September".

 

I'll wait for a while before buying a ticket.

 

 


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Ultimate Geek


  #2522709 14-Jul-2020 14:26
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frankv:

 

tdgeek:

 

I dont think its the media "It follows the Deputy Prime Minister of the Cook Islands, Mark Brown, telling the AM Show that an announcement about quarantine-free travel could be expected “within a week”.

 

 

It's "an announcement about quarantine-free travel", not "an announcement that quarantine-free will start" and not "an announcement that quarantine-free will start that day". The announcement within a week could be something as bland as "Both governments think it's a good idea", or that "the governments will make another announcement in a month's time" or that "flights will start in September".

 

I'll wait for a while before buying a ticket.

 

 

 

 

Don't think it is quite as vague as you make out. The Cooks were due to announce that they were lifting the requirement for NZers to isolate on arrival in the Cooks for stays of up to 6 months (puts a new slant on working from home). This would obviously now put perceptive pressure on the government ref having to quarantine people on return from the Cooks. So I think a deal is being done on the practicalities and it will be sooner rather than later. 


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  #2522789 14-Jul-2020 14:58
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cshwone:

 

Don't think it is quite as vague as you make out. The Cooks were due to announce that they were lifting the requirement for NZers to isolate on arrival in the Cooks for stays of up to 6 months (puts a new slant on working from home). This would obviously now put perceptive pressure on the government ref having to quarantine people on return from the Cooks. So I think a deal is being done on the practicalities and it will be sooner rather than later. 

 

 

To me, it's clear that its almost sorted, but for the CI MP to do a pre annouce was wrong. I also believe it will be sooner than later

 

re (puts a new slant on working from home), I will be enquiring about what's around in UV/Sand/Beer proof keyboards......:-)


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  #2522815 14-Jul-2020 15:56
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@empacher48 please stop using nicknames.




 

 

These links are referral codes

 

Geekzone broadband switch | Eletricity comparison and switch | Hatch investment (NZ$ 10 bonus if NZ$100 deposited within 30 days) | Sharesies | Mighty Ape | Backblaze | Amazon | My technology disclosure 




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Ultimate Geek

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  #2522839 14-Jul-2020 16:11
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cshwone:

 

Don't think it is quite as vague as you make out. The Cooks were due to announce that they were lifting the requirement for NZers to isolate on arrival in the Cooks for stays of up to 6 months (puts a new slant on working from home). This would obviously now put perceptive pressure on the government ref having to quarantine people on return from the Cooks. So I think a deal is being done on the practicalities and it will be sooner rather than later. 

 

 

Correct, as I mentioned earlier it appears Brown was prepared to announce the Cooks border open (from NZ only) whilst there was still a quarantine requirement in NZ for anyone returning, this would create a problem for NZ govt as tourists would then have return isolation paid for by the tax payer i.e. those prepared to spend 2 weeks in paid isolation after say a 1-2+ week holiday. The argument still stands as there are quite a few prepared to go to the Cooks one way...

 

There is definitely pressure on the NZ govt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek


  #2522840 14-Jul-2020 16:26
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empacher48: The risks are there, but less risk than opening to Australia. But one day we are going to have to accept the risk to open up, especially as there is more mounting evidence that long term immunity is not guaranteed.

 

 

 

Opeing up is  when there is a vaccine, or the virus has died out, or there is a good treatment. Or we open bubbles with countries that match our status or better, which is what Europe are doing.  NZs main problem is a lack of ICU beds if the virus gets a foothold here, as it won't take long for our health system to get overwhelmed. Once the virus is in rest homes, it is rampant, which has all sorts of knock on effects, and mass death . Plus those countries that are living with it are crippled with the need to socially distance and wear masks etc. Many businesses can't operate in   COVID economy due to less customers, and tourism will drop anyway, because who wants to travel to a country when you may risk getting Covid, and whether insurance will cover you anyway. People will however want to travel to NZ due to being Covid free in the community, but the cost of this is 14 days quarantine for them. But it allows NZ to focus on high value tourists who have more money and time to spend. The benefit of a CI bubble is mainly to the CI, as I read something like 70% of their economy is tourism. But they obviously want need all NZ tourists to be free of covid upon entry, which is potentially possible now, as long as it is well managed. eg They are not using the same facilities as incoming travelers from Covid countries. 

 

I suggest people watch Sundays Q&A interview with Rob Fyfe, , previous CEO of Air NZ, who is very realistic about the situation over the next few years. I agree with much of what he says in it.


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Master Geek


  #2522884 14-Jul-2020 18:06
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Cheap holiday may come at cost for the Government , well you and me as taxpayers

 

Costs to establish new duplicate infrastructure maintaining separation from repatriation flights.
Customs, Immigration, Biosecurity ( Biggie for our farming ), duplicate equipment, infrastructure , secure paths etc.
Separate staffing of this all ideally .
Holidays in Pacific may not be viable if holiday makers expecting a bargain are to pay the full costs.
So taxpayers may end up footing the difference to make it viable.
We could short circuit this and send direct aid ?

 

There is value to test and perfect this on the Pacific, though it might come with risk for them.
We have to be sure that they in turn they have good surveillance testing managing, private jets, cruising yachts, fishing boats , freighters
So we have to be very sure that we have put a lot of detailed planning into this , not distracted still perfecting Hotels.
New challenges like isolation of 501's that Aussie has surprised us with.

 

Doable, but a case of when, and we may take a hit to subsidize others overseas holidays. 


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  #2522894 14-Jul-2020 18:15
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xlinknz:

 

cshwone:

 

Don't think it is quite as vague as you make out. The Cooks were due to announce that they were lifting the requirement for NZers to isolate on arrival in the Cooks for stays of up to 6 months (puts a new slant on working from home). This would obviously now put perceptive pressure on the government ref having to quarantine people on return from the Cooks. So I think a deal is being done on the practicalities and it will be sooner rather than later. 

 

 

Correct, as I mentioned earlier it appears Brown was prepared to announce the Cooks border open (from NZ only) whilst there was still a quarantine requirement in NZ for anyone returning, this would create a problem for NZ govt as tourists would then have return isolation paid for by the tax payer i.e. those prepared to spend 2 weeks in paid isolation after say a 1-2+ week holiday. The argument still stands as there are quite a few prepared to go to the Cooks one way...

 

There is definitely pressure on the NZ govt

 

 

 

 

I can't agree, there is no pressure. NZ vs the Cooks is David and Goliath. Its quite feasible that an open border, no quarantine either side (and how can you have tourism if there isn't) is probably announceable in a week. But if the junior MP "announces" it early, then NZ, to save face will dis announce it. So the Cooms potentially lose out. Govt officials need to keep with the play.


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  #2522896 14-Jul-2020 18:18
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ezbee:

 


Cheap holiday may come at cost for the Government , well you and me as taxpayers

 

Costs to establish new duplicate infrastructure maintaining separation from repatriation flights.
Customs, Immigration, Biosecurity ( Biggie for our farming ), duplicate equipment, infrastructure , secure paths etc.
Separate staffing of this all ideally .
Holidays in Pacific may not be viable if holiday makers expecting a bargain are to pay the full costs.
So taxpayers may end up footing the difference to make it viable.
We could short circuit this and send direct aid ?

 

There is value to test and perfect this on the Pacific, though it might come with risk for them.
We have to be sure that they in turn they have good surveillance testing managing, private jets, cruising yachts, fishing boats , freighters
So we have to be very sure that we have put a lot of detailed planning into this , not distracted still perfecting Hotels.
New challenges like isolation of 501's that Aussie has surprised us with.

 

Doable, but a case of when, and we may take a hit to subsidize others overseas holidays. 

 

 

I don't want the Govt to be subsiding tourists. NEVER. One off costs to setup biosecurity etc , but no more. They can come in from covid free places, they can go out


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  #2522903 14-Jul-2020 18:21
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tdgeek:

 

ezbee:

 


Cheap holiday may come at cost for the Government , well you and me as taxpayers

 

Costs to establish new duplicate infrastructure maintaining separation from repatriation flights.
Customs, Immigration, Biosecurity ( Biggie for our farming ), duplicate equipment, infrastructure , secure paths etc.
Separate staffing of this all ideally .
Holidays in Pacific may not be viable if holiday makers expecting a bargain are to pay the full costs.
So taxpayers may end up footing the difference to make it viable.
We could short circuit this and send direct aid ?

 

There is value to test and perfect this on the Pacific, though it might come with risk for them.
We have to be sure that they in turn they have good surveillance testing managing, private jets, cruising yachts, fishing boats , freighters
So we have to be very sure that we have put a lot of detailed planning into this , not distracted still perfecting Hotels.
New challenges like isolation of 501's that Aussie has surprised us with.

 

Doable, but a case of when, and we may take a hit to subsidize others overseas holidays. 

 

 

I don't want the Govt to be subsiding tourists. NEVER. One off costs to setup biosecurity etc , but no more. They can come in from covid free places, they can go out

 

 

Those pesky tourism jobs really don't matter.


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  #2522911 14-Jul-2020 18:33
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Handle9:

 

 

 

Those pesky tourism jobs really don't matter.

 

 

You are on my case tonight, or morning tea for you

 

With Covid, tourism is screwed, there is no upside. Internally, Kiwis have traveled and that's done well for them. The first long weekend was a godsend. School holidays now and media articles say its going great, but off course its a short term great. My point was, international tourism is screwed, no one can fix that. Unless we want the Govt to pay for all the tickets they could have sold, there is no solution. All they can do is mothball their ventures or downsize to Kiwi internal size. The jobs do matter but they are not fixable. It like selling ice blocks to kids and now there are no kids. Its not their fault, its not the Govts fault, but where do we stop the benefits. Im not a tourism operator so its easy for me to comment. If I was and revenue has dropped 80% Id have to downsize, lay people off, and try to keep the operation in a state that it can be restarted. Knowing full well thats months if not years away . Id need to adapt to Kiwi prices. Its collateral damage that wont be foxed as the country recovers as their revenue is not from our country. 


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  #2523125 14-Jul-2020 21:48
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ezbee:


Cheap holiday may come at cost for the Government , well you and me as taxpayers


Costs to establish new duplicate infrastructure maintaining separation from repatriation flights.
Customs, Immigration, Biosecurity ( Biggie for our farming ), duplicate equipment, infrastructure , secure paths etc.
Separate staffing of this all ideally



Either we're serious about expanding our bubble to other countries or we're not. If we're going to do that, then we have to do all of this at some point in time. It's not a cost of tourists going Raro, it's a cost of intra-bubble travel.



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  #2534053 3-Aug-2020 21:04
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Here is some detail on how the travel bubble will work at airports

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/422642/travel-bubble-auckland-airport-announces-separate-zones-at-terminal

 

I suspect the Cooks bubble has been delayed until it confirmed there is no community infection in NZ as a result of the 2 Kiwis who tested positive at arrival overseas. Add the Cooks are unlikely to open their end if there is unaccounted cases in NZ 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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