This service could replace the ferries, or aeroplanes

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4198 posts

Uber Geek

#2907538 27-Apr-2022 14:41

If there are any key enablers it must be fuel cells - no batteries. And once in the air it needs to be certified and the prototype has to demonstrate it‘s collected test flight hours (it‘s still an airplane). By best guess, the EIS will not happen before 2030 - if ever.

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Technofreak

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#2907553 27-Apr-2022 15:04

Tinkerisk:

If there are any key enablers it must be fuel cells - no batteries. And once in the air it needs to be certified and the prototype has to demonstrate it‘s collected test flight hours (it‘s still an airplane). By best guess, the EIS will not happen before 2030 - if ever.

Interestingly from what I've read they're not classed as an aircraft.

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MikeAqua

7769 posts

Uber Geek

#2907613 27-Apr-2022 16:32

frankv:

I imagine flying over a flooded river is no problem, but alighting on it would be fraught with danger from floating debris. And then taxying on it would also be extremely challenging. So I'd say that no operations would be possible when the river was in flood.

If the wharf is 20 minutes from Blenheim I don't see an advantage over going to Picton.

The wharf as it is currently, isn't a suitable for berthing any sizeable craft onto. It's really for trailer boats. I also assume manoeuvring trailer boats and sea gliders in the same area would result in undesirable outcomes.

Mike

Tinkerisk

4198 posts

Uber Geek

#2907643 27-Apr-2022 17:58

Technofreak:

Tinkerisk:

If there are any key enablers it must be fuel cells - no batteries. And once in the air it needs to be certified and the prototype has to demonstrate it‘s collected test flight hours (it‘s still an airplane). By best guess, the EIS will not happen before 2030 - if ever.

Interestingly from what I've read they're not classed as an aircraft.

They PLAN to certify this thing with the U.S. Coast Guard instead of the FAA - this is questionable and I’m not sure the FAA will accept this. (The historical issue once has been with the Howard Hughes H-4 Spruce Goose. ;-)

For the EU I can tell you they have to certify it with the EASA AND the relevant maritime authorities. In the EU as the commander of this thingy you would actually require at least a CPL AND a skipper patent depending where it is in the air or in water. Another thing is that they use the VFR airspace starting at AMSL, regardless if it’s an airplane or not. The speed limit is 250kts there.

And WHEN it‘s not an airplane, why is there a dual pilot cockpit and secondary costly instrumentation which isn‘t required for a boat/ship? For me it‘s a big money driven wishful thinking startup completely ignoring the rules and asking and pushing later (when successful) with a lobby to change them (politically).

Assuming it‘s driven by fuel cells - hence nitrogen - you don‘t have to worry about finding major debris in case of an unexpected collision at the intended airspeeds. But I must admit that the colateral damage is quite limited in water.

Maybe Peter Thiel who backed Trump‘s election has an answer how to change the rules and the (international) laws … ;-)

MikeAqua

7769 posts

Uber Geek

#2907859 28-Apr-2022 11:50

Tinkerisk:

They PLAN to certify this thing with the U.S. Coast Guard instead of the FAA - this is questionable and I’m not sure the FAA will accept this. (The historical issue once has been with the Howard Hughes H-4 Spruce Goose. ;-)

For the EU I can tell you they have to certify it with the EASA AND the relevant maritime authorities. In the EU as the commander of this thingy you would actually require at least a CPL AND a skipper patent depending where it is in the air or in water. Another thing is that they use the VFR airspace starting at AMSL, regardless if it’s an airplane or not. The speed limit is 250kts there.

And WHEN it‘s not an airplane, why is there a dual pilot cockpit and secondary costly instrumentation which isn‘t required for a boat/ship? For me it‘s a big money driven wishful thinking startup completely ignoring the rules and asking and pushing later (when successful) with a lobby to change them (politically).

Assuming it‘s driven by fuel cells - hence nitrogen - you don‘t have to worry about finding major debris in case of an unexpected collision at the intended airspeeds. But I must admit that the colateral damage is quite limited in water.

Maybe Peter Thiel who backed Trump‘s election has an answer how to change the rules and the (international) laws … ;-)

It seems silly to have something registered as both a vessel and an aircraft. To me this is more like a Sea plane (regulated as an aircraft) than a hover craft (regulated as a vessel).

WIG craft (like those proposed sea-gliders) however are covered by some aspects of the Maritime rules in NZ including: Rule 22 (collision avoidance) in which they (like seaplanes) have no right of way over any vessel and must display particular lights or day-shapes; and Rule 40, which covers construction requirements.

Mike

Tinkerisk

4198 posts

Uber Geek

#2908082 29-Apr-2022 02:21

MikeAqua:

It seems silly to have something registered as both a vessel and an aircraft. To me this is more like a Sea plane (regulated as an aircraft) than a hover craft (regulated as a vessel).

Registered is not the same as certified.

frankv

5678 posts

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#2908219 29-Apr-2022 11:32

Tinkerisk:

They PLAN to certify this thing with the U.S. Coast Guard instead of the FAA - this is questionable and I’m not sure the FAA will accept this. (The historical issue once has been with the Howard Hughes H-4 Spruce Goose. ;-)

For the EU I can tell you they have to certify it with the EASA AND the relevant maritime authorities. In the EU as the commander of this thingy you would actually require at least a CPL AND a skipper patent depending where it is in the air or in water. Another thing is that they use the VFR airspace starting at AMSL, regardless if it’s an airplane or not. The speed limit is 250kts there.

And WHEN it‘s not an airplane, why is there a dual pilot cockpit and secondary costly instrumentation which isn‘t required for a boat/ship? For me it‘s a big money driven wishful thinking startup completely ignoring the rules and asking and pushing later (when successful) with a lobby to change them (politically).

Assuming it‘s driven by fuel cells - hence nitrogen - you don‘t have to worry about finding major debris in case of an unexpected collision at the intended airspeeds. But I must admit that the colateral damage is quite limited in water.

Maybe Peter Thiel who backed Trump‘s election has an answer how to change the rules and the (international) laws … ;-)

They claim to have agreement from NZ CAA that it will not be treated as an aircraft. So in NZ at least the certification and testing and speed limit and CPL won't be apply. In theory, all of those things are in place to ensure safety of aircraft... how much that safety is compromised by eliminating the requirements is something I wouldn't want to test.

I assume you meant hydrogen rather than nitrogen above. I don't see hydrogen as a viable fuel due to difficulties in storing adequate quantities. But fuel cells can run on e.g. alcohol. Of course, if you use a hydrocarbon as fuel you're emitting CO2.

Tinkerisk

4198 posts

Uber Geek

#2908700 30-Apr-2022 17:45

Yes sure hydrogen - sorry for the mixup, I was in a hurry.

For your national certification, you could make a shoebox fly if you want but as you said, it would not improve safety. As someone with a decent amount of Fh in the LH front seat and in testing I certainly would prefer the ferry (or the orange coloured lifeboat when well maintained). ;-)

But usually when it flies, it‘s an aircraft. When it swims, it‘s a boat and if it‘s submerged, it‘s a submarine (or a sunken flagship). Let‘s see if even this can be altered by money and streamlined thinking. To do this, it must first be brought into the air.

MikeAqua

7769 posts

Uber Geek

#2909173 2-May-2022 09:21

Tinkerisk:

Registered is not the same as certified.

And certification is not the same as in-survey.

Mike

Tinkerisk

4198 posts

Uber Geek

#2909327 2-May-2022 14:15

MikeAqua:

Tinkerisk:

Registered is not the same as certified.

And certification is not the same as in-survey.

I know, that's why I read the regulations for approval and not newspapers.

wellygary

8253 posts

Uber Geek

#2915390 18-May-2022 08:51

Well, I'm seeing a fair bit of foiling, but not so much ground effect,

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/green-travel/300591084/first-footage-of-new-electric-seagliders-coming-to-new-zealand

feeling that going from such a prototype position to commercial production in 3-4 years is "ambitious" :)

(esp with public transport certification being involved)

eracode

Smpl Mnmlst
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#2915405 18-May-2022 09:03

Bit of a joke so far. A hydrofoil with wings - an unmanned scale model that looks like it was designed and built by a 12-year-old as part of a science project.

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