Auckland International Airport - Domestic Terminal Changes

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#3054180 24-Mar-2023 16:05

Technofreak:

Handle9:

The integrated terminal with domestic at the eastern end of terminal 2 was announced in 2017. This isn't new.

The northern runway will be mostly domestic/regional operations.

Correct it's not new. If my memory serves me correctly it pre dates 2017 and 2014 by a big margin.

If you look at the taxiway layout and the location of the second runway, building the domestic terminal to the east as with the current proposal doesn't make any sense. My hazy memory of the original proposal put the domestic terminal to the west or north west of the international terminal closer to the northern runway, thus fitting in with the taxyway layout.

By putting the domestic terminal where they're proposing tells me they have no intention of progressing the second runway anytime in the next 30 or so years.

You're reading too much into it. They are positioning the terminal the way they are due to what they have already and how they will build the baggage system. Doing it the way they have means they can get a lot of space and passenger flow efficiencies from a common check in area for domestic and international. It reduces the cost of the build and will be much more efficient to operate as a fully integrated terminal. Putting domestic to the north would be effectively replicating what they have now which is two completely separate terminals.

It's not ideal with the taxi way but it's a brownfields development so they are constrained by the current footprint.

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#3054181 24-Mar-2023 16:07

empacher48:
Handle9:

The integrated terminal with domestic at the eastern end of terminal 2 was announced in 2017. This isn't new.

The northern runway will be mostly domestic/regional operations.

That idea was changed prior to covid, the northern runway was restarted with the taxiway Lima and Mike extensions to be a 3200m runway.

The idea of an 1800m runway north of the airport upset Airways and Air NZ. Only three domestic routes going north of Auckland, vs all of the rest south. Airways came up with routing that departures and arrivals would pass over the top of Auckland Airport to either depart or arrive on the northern runway. Meanwhile all international departures go North of Auckland.

Locals got upset with the idea of every domestic flight having to make a climbing turn over Auckland city to head south, or arriving aircraft doing much the same. Meanwhile international departures of the southern runway would have inefficient hold downs until they passed north of the northern runway approach and departure area.

Horribly inefficient and expensive to the point that a short northern runway wouldn’t be used, except if you’re going to Northland or Great Barrier.

Sydney and Brisbane with their parallel runways have the right idea, where you arrive from or depart to, means what runway you use. Building an 1800m runway to the north would be OK for an A320/321 to land on, but be significantly payload restricted for an international departure.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. I haven't been involved in the runway side like I have been with the terminal, especially since I left NZ.

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#3054185 24-Mar-2023 16:14

Scott3:

Separating the regional & jet domestic terminals seems, well odd.

Would make Auckland a relatively unattractive place to transfer (regional to jet), so would have quite an impact on the NZ regional network. (a 30min transfer time is a bit hard with a terminal change).

And I wonder if there is enough regional flights to support a good range of food options in a regional terminal...

Seems like a half way solution in that regard, but yet the cost is in the billions. It dosn't really seem to fit into the long term airport plan for a single terminal.

Personally don't really mind the separate terminals. Things like traffic, carparking, taxi stands etc are all easier to handle with the number of people split in half accross two sites. (that said I live in Auckland so never transfer here).

Auckland lacks a high capacity rail link to the airport, so there is less reason to bring the operation together to serve a single rail stop.

Domestic / international transfers tend to be multiple hours, so a 10min trip between domestic & international terminals is less of a big deal. pain of walking the Green line in the rain could be mitigated by installing an automated people mover. Would cost just a few million.

With regards to the additional runway, the trend for more modern airports larger airports seems to be multiple parallel runways. While Auckland is a windy city by international standards, the airport seems to be rarely closed for high winds.

I think the current proposed length of the second runway is 2983m

Not sure who should pick up the cost, But I think it would be beneficial for a civilian airport in the north island to be upgraded with a 3,000m odd runway, so it can be used as an become an alternate should Auckland be unavailable.

Seems a waste for all the larger long hall planes to carry an additional hour of fuel, so they can reach Christchurch as an alternative. Hamilton would seem like a good candidate. already has a 2km runway, with a bunch of space at one end.

An APM would likely cost at least $50-100 million. The Luton one just opened and that was £290m for a 1.6km run.

The regional operations will likely end up as part of the integrated terminal but that's still under consultation. They are going through the 5 year pricing round now so it's the usual stare down between the airlines and airport.

The transport hub, which is under construction, has been designed to accommodate a future rail connection. They have to design in the infrastructure now or it'll never be viable. Sooner or later there will be a rail connection to the airport.

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#3054193 24-Mar-2023 16:50

Dingbatt:

If you are travelling on one ticket (same PNR), for example PMR-AKL-SYD, then you will more than likely be able to through-check your bags to SYD when you check in at PMR.

So you could check in your bags at a place with little to no security or scanning (e.g. Hokitika, but probably also PMR) and they would go onto the plane to (e.g.) New York? So long as someone (who matched the passport that matched the ticketing information, not necessarily the person who flew to AKL) got on the plane to New York?

Asking for a friend. ;)

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#3054194 24-Mar-2023 16:56

frankv:

Dingbatt:

If you are travelling on one ticket (same PNR), for example PMR-AKL-SYD, then you will more than likely be able to through-check your bags to SYD when you check in at PMR.

So you could check in your bags at a place with little to no security or scanning (e.g. Hokitika, but probably also PMR) and they would go onto the plane to (e.g.) New York? So long as someone (who matched the passport that matched the ticketing information, not necessarily the person who flew to AKL) got on the plane to New York?

Asking for a friend. ;)

Pretty much. That's one of the reasons for standard 3 baggage scanning and an ICS system. Every bag will be CT scanned so it satisfies the security side of things and an ICS is fully traceable through the system so can be routed after it's injected.

Domestic jet baggage will be directly routed without going through checkin.

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#3054209 24-Mar-2023 17:49

Maybe they can raise the floors as insurance against future weather events.
Put in massive culverts.

When you see all the area around the Airport what once might have soaked up,
pooled or diverted water thats under buildings and concrete.

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#3054306 24-Mar-2023 22:29

ezbee:

Maybe they can raise the floors as insurance against future weather events.
Put in massive culverts.

When you see all the area around the Airport what once might have soaked up,
pooled or diverted water thats under buildings and concrete.

Massive Culverts / Drain pipes seem the obvious pick. The airport is so close to the coast that they don't need to run far.

While raising the floors might help avoid damage to the building, If the vehicle access points get flooded like last time, the airport is going to grind to a halt anyway fairly quickly.

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#3054356 25-Mar-2023 03:08

While we’re at it, why don’t we just revive this crazy idea - brhahaha!

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=179&topicid=255943&page_no=1#2312597

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#3054357 25-Mar-2023 03:29

eracode:
While we’re at it, why don’t we just revive this crazy idea - brhahaha!

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=179&topicid=255943&page_no=1#2312597

Let’s not open up the Air NZ propaganda machine again.

eracode

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#3054358 25-Mar-2023 04:26

Handle9:

An APM would likely cost at least $50-100 million. The Luton one just opened and that was £290m for a 1.6km run.

An Auckland APM could easily be incorporated into the new Auckland Light Rail system …. 😁

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#3054573 25-Mar-2023 16:41

empacher48:
Technofreak:

Good points. While from a ground point of view the north western location of the domestic terminal with respect to the northern runway made a lot sense it sure was a buggers muddle from an air traffic routing perspective.

Based on your post I'd say the northern runway will never happen.

Perhaps they really need to take the bull by the horns and reclaim land to the south of the airport build the secondary parallel runway to the south and relocate the all the terminal facilities to lie between both runways. I don't see what they have now being able to be expanded efficiently.

The new integrated domestic terminal is going where the tennis court is now (layover stands 70-73 and 82-84 and taxiway delta will go). They have finished the new permanent airside access point which enters the apron area by gate 20 is ready to go for the domestic terminal works.

So still preferential to using the southern runway for domestic ops.

They haven’t announced anything but they have restarted the earthworks for layover stands north of the international pier B, which will eventually turn into aerobridge gates. So the taxiway Lima and Mike extensions won’t be too far away either. As they’ll need those extra layover gates once the tennis court turns into a construction zone.

I assume you meant northern runway.

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#3054575 25-Mar-2023 16:47

Technofreak:

I assume you meant northern runway.

05R/23L

As the new domestic terminal is only going to be about 200m west of the current domestic terminal. So will be a long taxi from the new domestic terminal to the new 05L/23R

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#3054576 25-Mar-2023 16:48

geek3001:

Fair point re lack of space for a north south runway, apologies, I should have clarified my comment on the basis of longer term planning to leave space. We can only hope the changing climate does not result in a future change of predominant winds to north / south.

I can't recall specific times when operations have been affected by winds but I have seen that happen, I could retrieve radar logs but that would be a bit time consuming.

The most recent instance of the Police helicopter affecting RW23 operations was in September last year per this article https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shots-fired-at-police-in-operation-that-delays-international-domestic-flights/OZYQZNZRYESCMVZZ7G3OJCKCLM/

Climate change won't change the prevailing winds unless climate change, changes the direction of the earths rotation.

That article you quote is an extremely rare occurrence. The police helicopter is refused access to the approach/departure fans on a daily basis. They don't get priority and not likely to ever get it.

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#3054580 25-Mar-2023 16:57

Scott3:

Separating the regional & jet domestic terminals seems, well odd.

Would make Auckland a relatively unattractive place to transfer (regional to jet), so would have quite an impact on the NZ regional network. (a 30min transfer time is a bit hard with a terminal change).

And I wonder if there is enough regional flights to support a good range of food options in a regional terminal...

Auckland lacks a high capacity rail link to the airport, so there is less reason to bring the operation together to serve a single rail stop.

I agree separating domestic regional and jet terminals is odd and not in the best interests of the traveling public. It will make Auckland a very unattractive place to transfer between regional and jet services but unfortunately a lot of people don't have choice.

There's more than enough regional flights to support a good range of food options. Air NZ even have a separate regional Koru Lounge.

I've been told that one of the reasons there is no rail link to the airport is because Auckland Airport don't or didn't want one as it would have negatively impacted their carparking revenue.

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#3054582 25-Mar-2023 17:02

empacher48:
Technofreak:

I assume you meant northern runway.

05R/23L

As the new domestic terminal is only going to be about 200m west of the current domestic terminal. So will be a long taxi from the new domestic terminal to the new 05L/23R

Correct.

With the issues you mentioned wrt to traffic routing and Auckland residential complaints I don't think 23R/05L will see the light of day.

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