The number of same sex relationships with children is minutely small compared to heterosexual relationships with children. At this time research results would be too heavily skewed to be of any real use.
Klipspringer: I disagree with people who "swing" in their marriages. I disagree with the "swinging lifestyle" just as much as I disagree with the "gay lifestyle.
Exactly. Swinging involves sex, hence the reference to sex that you brought up. Your response is a deflection from what was being discussed. My point was simply that what people choose to do consensually, privately and safely in their own lives and has does not change any outcome for you is really none of your business.
If you want to have an 'opinion' or a 'moral position' on it, that's up to you - but it does not give you a right to use that opinion or moral position to try and deny rights to that group.
Jeez OK. Did not realize that my quote could be interpenetrated as SEX???
If I said: : I disagree with people who "are faithful" in their marriages. I disagree with the "single partner lifestyle" just as much as I disagree with the "hetrosexual lifestyle.
Those lifestyles also involves sex. But hey the word SEX may even jump out at you if I am referring to sheep farming!!!
It was a reference to a lifestyle choice. But point taken. It could probably be seen as “briniging up the sex topic”, but still don’t see why you reference it when referring to gay parenting?
ajobbins: Is it OK to have a opinion about someone's private/sex life? No, as long as no one is at risk from harm. If you want to have such an opinion, keep it to yourself. Using it as a reason to try and justify withholding a right to a person is wrong.
Love the way that you tell me that I can’t have an opinion. No right to an opinion?
Anyway, lets try and get back on topic about the biased gay parenting survey.
ajobbins: I'd very much like to know what you are thinking here too. There are a number of different angles you could take on that subject, and I'm interested to know which one you are taking.
1) Drinking 2) Keeping a Secret 3) We pee standing up 4) We are taller 5) We are easily amused 6) We are stronger 7) We get ready faster 8) We are better drivers 9) We are cheap 10) We can have facial hair
This is not a definitive list, and sure this is not to be taken seriously.
Some things that a woman can do better than a man:
Jokes aside. I need to think carefully about those points. There are many. I will put together a list as to what things in our marriage a women and a man are better at. My wife and me. The wolves are watching... watch this space.
ajobbins: I'd very much like to know what you are thinking here too. There are a number of different angles you could take on that subject, and I'm interested to know which one you are taking.
1) Drinking 2) Keeping a Secret 3) We pee standing up 4) We are taller 5) We are easily amused 6) We are stronger 7) We get ready faster 8) We are better drivers 9) We are cheap 10) We can have facial hair
This is not a definitive list, and sure this is not to be taken seriously.
Some things that a woman can do better than a man:
Jokes aside. I need to think carefully about those points. There are many. I will put together a list as to what things in our marriage a women and a man are better at. My wife and me. The wolves are watching... watch this space.
I'm pleased you're not serious about the above list, but the question had to be asked. Unfortunately (IMHO), there are still plenty of people out there in the world who would wholeheartedly agree with the list above.
LOL. It reminds me of when we first moved to New Zealand
There was this advert they they use to have here on the TV. It was advertising a music CD called "house cleaning music" or something. There was this women running around the house doing all the cleaning, music CD blasting.
When my wife and I saw it we were like WTH!!! Wish I could find a reference to it somewhere.
I'm pleased you're not serious about the above list, but the question had to be asked. Unfortunately (IMHO), there are still plenty of people out there in the world who would wholeheartedly agree with the list above.
In life there are jobs which are better suited for men, jobs better suited for woman. I don't want to get into a debate about what these jobs are, its just the way the world is.
Some examples Rugby coach Mens sexual adviser
The same can be said about women jobs. Its the way the world works.
Now keeping the above in mind. The same can apply to families. There are certain tasks in a family structure that are better suited to the man of the house, and some better suited for the women. As I said earlier, there is no way that any man in this world would be able to be a better Mom to my kids than my wife.
The simple fact that the kids in a "gay family" are already living without at least one biological parent is not ideal. (yes they can turn out OK and sometimes better than maybe the average)
The same can be said for remarried parents. Or when one spouse dies. I am not denying that, all I am saying is that the absolute best family setup for kids would be biological parents, in a happy loving family.
And thats what the yard stick should be in all of these type of surveys. Not "New Zealand average". Heck if my kids turn out "New Zealand average" I will probably look back at myself one day and say that I have failed as a parent.
Laws like this cannot be reversed. That takes a revolution. And I believe that's where NZ is heading.
And if you want to bring a revolution over stuff like this, you'll be first against the wall, buddy.
You are your sides version of the "crazy-ass" religious bigot. It is hard to have an intelligent discussion on any issue when people like this exist on both sides.
Hey, we just want to be left the hell alone and gay people getting married doesn't affect Klipspringer. He's against letting us be, so if it comes to that, it's us vs his people, guess what..
bradstewart: Because that's what this entire argument is about at its root.
Hmmm, that's not what I've been debating.
ajobbins:Is it OK to have a opinion about someone's private/sex life? No, as long as no one is at risk from harm. If you want to have such an opinion, keep it to yourself. Using it as a reason to try and justify withholding a right to a person is wrong.
In my opinion this is closer to the root of the debate: on what basis does a person have a right to marry, and who confers that right on them?
When anybody starts to argue about rights and says that it has no impact on me it immediately gets my hackles up. To me granting a right implies a corresponding responsibility. In this case, if homosexual people are granted the right to marry then I (as a member of the society that granted the right) have a responsibility to respect and recognise the marriage. As such, I believe I have the right to hold an opinion...
Then it's up to you to respond and say how it impacts you. If it has a direct impact on you, then surely that's obvious?
Unless it's part of your job description, you don't have to recognise anything about anyone's relationship, where it impacts you. (Morally/ethically speaking) I added "where it impacts you" because, as an example, hospital staff recognising next of kin/spouse in a end of life/accident situation at a hospital. What would it cost you personally if you disagree'd with gay marriage to let a same sex spouse see their dying partner?
I'm pleased you're not serious about the above list, but the question had to be asked. Unfortunately (IMHO), there are still plenty of people out there in the world who would wholeheartedly agree with the list above.
In life there are jobs which are better suited for men, jobs better suited for woman. I don't want to get into a debate about what these jobs are, its just the way the world is.
Some examples Rugby coach Mens sexual adviser
The same can be said about women jobs. Its the way the world works.
Now keeping the above in mind. The same can apply to families. There are certain tasks in a family structure that are better suited to the man of the house, and some better suited for the women. As I said earlier, there is no way that any man in this world would be able to be a better Mom to my kids than my wife.
The simple fact that the kids in a "gay family" are already living without at least one biological parent is not ideal. (yes they can turn out OK and sometimes better than maybe the average)
The same can be said for remarried parents. Or when one spouse dies. I am not denying that, all I am saying is that the absolute best family setup for kids would be biological parents, in a happy loving family.
And thats what the yard stick should be in all of these type of surveys. Not "New Zealand average". Heck if my kids turn out "New Zealand average" I will probably look back at myself one day and say that I have failed as a parent.
So, you're saying that women can't/"don't know how" to play rugby? Good work there. As for a "men's sexual adviser", who do you think most men are having sex with?
I still don't get why you're so opposed to same-sex couples raising children and thus apparently against same sex marriage. There are lots of things that happen in this world that make things "less than ideal", so why do you want to come along and screw with anyone else even more?
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