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834 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1110433 18-Aug-2014 12:55
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jonathan18: The argument being made here by some that this is just a distraction from what we should be discussing at election time - ie policies - is missing the bigger picture. Yes, policies should be the focus, but to suggest that matters that clearly raise significant concerns about:

 

  • the ethics and values of our politicians
  • the use of bloggers to do the 'dirty work' of political parties
  • the use of astro-turfing to manipulate public onion
  • digging for dirt to essentially blackmail people in public office...
shouldn't be investigated, discussed and debated in public, AND have an impact on the appropriateness of particular individuals to hold public office, is one screwed-up way of thinking. To do so is to argue that it doesn't matter what goes on behind closed doors as long as the policies are good, an untenable ostrich-like position.

Similarly, I agree with those that say the debate here (and more widely) has too often been coloured by the political leanings of the poster. This is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the debate, and I'm really disappointed that intelligent people appear to be unable to have a debate about the matters in hand without simply resorting to political positioning. Perhaps as I have a social science background this is more critical to me than others.


There's a few things missing from your list

 

  • defacement or destruction of campaign hoardings
  • racial vilification
  • hiding of donations
  • hiding of third party manpower and resources applied to campaigns

One also has to take into account that this entire "Dirty Politics" drama is an exercise in astro-turfing itself, and we should keep in mind that two wrongs don't make a right. 

gzt

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1110434 18-Aug-2014 12:55
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Start a new topic on the tax rate issue.

186 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1110437 18-Aug-2014 12:57
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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1110456 18-Aug-2014 13:24
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He crumbled under pressure as he clearly wanted to avoid answering the question we all knew the answer too.
Politicians can usually hide their attempts to avoid a question but this was something else.

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  Reply # 1110463 18-Aug-2014 13:38
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And whaledump just put a zip file on Mega with some screen shots.

As per http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11310429

https://mobile.twitter.com/whaledump/status/501171743806214144

Sigh it doesn't bode well as now they are being as bad as Anonymous. But I suspected it had to happen.







Awesome
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  Reply # 1110465 18-Aug-2014 13:40
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MrJonathanNZ: He crumbled under pressure as he clearly wanted to avoid answering the question we all knew the answer too.
Politicians can usually hide their attempts to avoid a question but this was something else.


Yes, he clearly was avoiding the questions about Collins where the information is known (by Collins own admissions) to be correct. Instead he continued to try and undermine Hagar's credibility and the fact that parts (and only parts) of the book are Hagar's own conclusions.




Twitter: ajobbins


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  Reply # 1110472 18-Aug-2014 13:52
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Mate, as the thread starter can you at least spell his name correctly H A G E R.
As far as I know Hagar is a Nordic cartoon character (Hagar the Horrible).

Disclaimer, I have been known to make the same error.




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1110479 18-Aug-2014 14:06
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NZ Herald are saying that the hex 9284C4A9EB9268918E03313DCDAD5C12EFF3D467 attached to @whaledump's twitter handle is Winston Peters' email address.



"The Twitter handle carries the address 3 Hans Cres - the address of the Ecuadorian embassy in London where Wikileaks founder Julian Assange is exiled.

 

The handle also includes an encryption key which resolves to Winston Peter's email address."



Is this what Winston Peters was talking about a couple months back when he said he had dirt that would cause Judith Collins to resign?

http://www.3news.co.nz/Winston-Peters-attack-on-Judith-Collins-fizzles/tabid/1607/articleID/344006/Default.aspx

Might be a bit of a stretch, but just trying to figure out why the leaker has put up Winston's email address.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1110495 18-Aug-2014 14:12
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code15: NZ Herald are saying that the hex 9284C4A9EB9268918E03313DCDAD5C12EFF3D467 attached to @whaledump's twitter handle is Winston Peters' email address.



Sounds like our hacker is br'er Fox :-)

gzt

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  Reply # 1110499 18-Aug-2014 14:16
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If you have a look at all the posts in the feed for the account that released the information:

https://mobile.twitter.com/whaledump

You can see the account has been taunting and hinting for several days prior. I expect that including something to identify Peters is part of the same taunting process. Including this key could be a hint that the person has something on Peters as well, or it might be just silly. Who can tell.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1110500 18-Aug-2014 14:17
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I'm a bit *yawn* about it all.  
Considering some of the outright vote buying legislation that governments will put though in order to stay in power, I find it quite easy to accept all the intrigues that are going on behind closed doors.

The only real surprise for me is the level of trust politicians seem to share with Slater.  They are loco if they never thought it wasn't going to come back and bite them.



Awesome
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  Reply # 1110503 18-Aug-2014 14:19
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tigercorp: I'm a bit *yawn* about it all.  
Considering some of the outright vote buying legislation that governments will put though in order to stay in power, I find it quite easy to accept all the intrigues that are going on behind closed doors.


Maybe you should try and hold your elected representatives to a higher standard?




Twitter: ajobbins


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  Reply # 1110507 18-Aug-2014 14:21
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ajobbins:
tigercorp: I'm a bit *yawn* about it all.  
Considering some of the outright vote buying legislation that governments will put though in order to stay in power, I find it quite easy to accept all the intrigues that are going on behind closed doors.


Maybe you should try and hold your elected representatives to a higher standard?


How do you propose we do this? This type of thing has been going on as long as politics have been around.  It's not ideal, however, at the end of the day, given the period of time it's been going on, it would seem not much works by way of disincentive.

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  Reply # 1110508 18-Aug-2014 14:22
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tigercorp: I'm a bit *yawn* about it all.  
Considering some of the outright vote buying legislation that governments will put though in order to stay in power, I find it quite easy to accept all the intrigues that are going on behind closed doors.

The only real surprise for me is the level of trust politicians seem to share with Slater.  They are loco if they never thought it wasn't going to come back and bite them.


Since you mention vote buying, the TaxPayers Union have a Bribe-o-Meter on their site showing how much tax payers are going to have to pay for the promises of the various parties. Currently only the Nats and Labour are up and they say they will add to it once policy is announced.

186 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1110513 18-Aug-2014 14:26
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tigercorp: I'm a bit *yawn* about it all.  
Considering some of the outright vote buying legislation that governments will put though in order to stay in power, I find it quite easy to accept all the intrigues that are going on behind closed doors.

The only real surprise for me is the level of trust politicians seem to share with Slater.  They are loco if they never thought it wasn't going to come back and bite them.


If everyone is *yawn* about it, then we're heading down a pretty dark road don't you think? Luckily this story should only going to get bigger from here. Good wake up call for all politicians.

In 2013 we perceived our government to be one of the least corrupt in the world, I want it to stay that way.

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results

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