Dirty Politics: Nicky Hager's New Book

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#1109609 16-Aug-2014 19:20

This thread is a joke. Most people who commented on this thread didn't even read the book. If any of the claims from the book is/are incorrect, there will be legal actions from day one.

Remember teapot tape in the last election?

Those mentioned in this book has not categorically denied the information. The usual I can't remember or I will not divulge my source etc are being used for excuse. Rather than discussing the content of the book, the usual tactics has been applied ie attacking the credibility of the writer etc. I also think Labor Party are caught by surprised or they don't have good campaign team.

The book is definitely a good nighttime reading (3.5 stars).

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#1109915 17-Aug-2014 13:47

astrae: Reading the latest news about Labour being 'Hacked' is just painful to read and a joke....

If you aren't aware of the 'hacking', labour had their whole website open so you could browse every directory and download any file. Google even cached these files and databases so they are as guilty as everyone else for 'hacking'...

Here is the video Cameron Slater posted back in 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnOAeVaU5xM

I had a similar reaction when I read that herald article on the topic. The use of the 'H' word is not justified one bit unless there was some prior attack that disabled security. There is no suggestion of that.

When I read it a second time after getting over the lols I realise that this is actually not the main allegation in that article. Here's the main point:

Labour received an written assurance from the National Party which stated that the information had been downloaded by a National Party staff member and led them to believe that it would go no further and the information had not been opened and would not be used. As I understand it information in the Hager book indicates that a National Party staff member (Ede) subsequently worked with an outside person (Slater) on how best to use those membership lists for political advantage.

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#1109978 17-Aug-2014 16:08

For all those cynics and those who are quick to judge without reading the detail, the Herald has published five 'crucial parts' of the book (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/editors-picks/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503539&objectid=11310001).

One of these excerpts in particular (quoted below) reflects a comment by a philosophy professor in an interview on Nat Rad this morning (http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/20145974/dirty-politics-an-ethical-minefield) - that one of the most disturbing feature of this case is Slater's (and others) keenness to dig for dirt on anyone in the public eye (that they don't like), simply to to take them down; and, more widely, what such actions could do to stifle debate and the willingness for people to speak their mind and engage in the public sphere.

To regard this kind of behaviour as 'normal' or even acceptable, or more widely to dismiss the book and its content as unimportant or irrelevant is disturbing and, to me, reflects the strong status-quo/don't rock the boat/anti-intellectualism streak prevalent in NZ. While these dirty tactics are increasingly used in politics world-wide, it's something that should be acknowledged and fought.

Quote follows:

Far from feeling remorseful, Cameron Slater was empowered by his spectacular attack on Len Brown.

Just one week after the affair was made public, when it was clear Brown was not going to resign, Slater started hunting for more sex-related dirt on the mayor.

On October 23, he asked his ex-prostitute friend if she could help to dig up some more stories: "Rattle your cages to see if Len rooted in brothels." He declared confidently: "He will have. I'd love a hooker to come forward and tell all about Lenny."

His friend wrote back: "What man in grey hasn't?" Slater continued: "Get me dirt ... he will get away with it otherwise ... whatever you can rustle up, what he likes, when, how, and how he pays."

His friend said: "I will get my sticky feelers out."

Slater often pumped his ex-prostitute friend for information.

"Now tell me who ... current MPs ... are rooting in brothels and like different stuff," he wrote in June 2011. His friend replied he should talk to another woman with "her finger more on the pulse" and who knew "heaps of sh!t".

She said: "I should send you a friend request, she is on the piss tonight, so may spill." Slater said: "Right let's get digging ... time to let those pricks know they can be got." His friend checked that Slater would not name her on his blog and he assured her he would not even mention her.

"Done," she replied. Slater said, "Ok cool ... i want to take out some pollies. Let them know they can be got, so [they] play ball with the whale."

The following month, Slater pressed his friend for information again. "How many politicians did you do?" he asked. "A lot," she said, "and what is interesting is I am pulling all accounts from my club days ... so there are some high people's accounts on there that will ping my memory." Slater replied, "Oooohhh can I have the politicians please?"

Slater sent Aaron Bhatnagar a copy of an American article about Nixon era dirty tricks, which the people involved had called ratf __ king. He said, "Someone posted this on a blog yesterday in a post about me ... Let us raise a morning glass to Donald Segretti, the ratf__ ker ... Apparently it is dreadful and I am guilty of it ... I view it as aspirational," he said. "It is proper politics."

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#1110033 17-Aug-2014 18:56

Call me slow, but, where did Hager get the emails from?

Is it that easy to steal emails?

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#1110035 17-Aug-2014 18:58

I am not sure he has revealed his source of the emails. That is perhaps what the media should be findiong out.

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#1110039 17-Aug-2014 19:07

mattwnz: I am not sure he has revealed his source of the emails. That is perhaps what the media should be findiong out.

Pfft that's typical national party spin. Let's not focus on the horrid things slater have said but have a witch hunt for the leaker... umm anyone reminded about Watergate. No one needs to know about serious corruption within the inner circles of our government. Let's all pretend it's fine sleepy little hobbits.

The fact slater or collins has yet to deny any of the very specific allegations speaks volumes.

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#1110041 17-Aug-2014 19:12

joker97: Call me slow, but, where did Hager get the emails from?

Is it that easy to steal emails?

well no one really knows but the data appears to have come from facebook chats, gmail and "other" email accounts
That to me suggests more than slaters 'website' was hacked, it must have been done at a fairly high level.
Hager says it was not dotcom, dotcom says it wasn't him and slater has released screenshots of texts that suggest he know something about it.
at the moment I would probably trust dot com over slater but there will be a lot of dirt flying.
Hager also states on his blog that he can't release all the data, but that someone else might do it themselves. That might be worse than the book.
who is that someone else, Anonymous ?

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#1110042 17-Aug-2014 19:16

BarTender:
mattwnz: I am not sure he has revealed his source of the emails. That is perhaps what the media should be findiong out.

The fact slater or collins has yet to deny any of the very specific allegations speaks volumes.

If you say so.

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#1110044 17-Aug-2014 19:17

Hi, I normally dont get drawn on political stuff, but honestly, it seems no one hacked anything, instead Labour whom seem asleep at the wheel left it hanging, knowingly or not, for anyone interested to have a butchers at. They have no one to blame except those IT staff responsible for their tech, and presumably any officers in control of those staff.

Cyril

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#1110050 17-Aug-2014 19:29

networkn:
BarTender:
mattwnz: I am not sure he has revealed his source of the emails. That is perhaps what the media should be findiong out.

The fact slater or collins has yet to deny any of the very specific allegations speaks volumes.

If you say so.

Show me a denial from Collins such as this nugget
"Cameron Slater: he is a very silly man, because I could stop the people who are going against him. But now, he is just going to get double.
Judith Collins: you know the rule. always reward with Double.
Cameron Slater: i learned the rule from you! Double it is.
Judith Collins: If you can’t be loved, then best to be feared."

Her response was these were private emails and were not intended for public view. How is that not an admission. Slater said even this morning that Collins was a close personal friend.

Please.. show me any denial apart from the typical character attacks on Hager... which I personally don't have a whole lot of time for. But on the balance of probably would be more inclined to believe what he has said more than anything coming out of Slaters mouth.

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#1110051 17-Aug-2014 19:34

cyril7: Hi, I normally dont get drawn on political stuff, but honestly, it seems no one hacked anything, instead Labour whom seem asleep at the wheel left it hanging, knowingly or not, for anyone interested to have a butchers at. They have no one to blame except those IT staff responsible for their tech, and presumably any officers in control of those staff.

Cyril

So ya know you left your front door open.. had a good look around your house and took lots of photos before I left. Then I announced your fetish for master filters. That's all your fault and I don't need to take any responsibilities for my actions and consequential activities I did afterwards. I absolve all responsibility because you left your front door open.

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#1110053 17-Aug-2014 19:35

BarTender:
networkn:
BarTender:
mattwnz: I am not sure he has revealed his source of the emails. That is perhaps what the media should be findiong out.

The fact slater or collins has yet to deny any of the very specific allegations speaks volumes.

If you say so.

Show me a denial from Collins such as this nugget
"Cameron Slater: he is a very silly man, because I could stop the people who are going against him. But now, he is just going to get double.
Judith Collins: you know the rule. always reward with Double.
Cameron Slater: i learned the rule from you! Double it is.
Judith Collins: If you can’t be loved, then best to be feared."

Her response was these were private emails and were not intended for public view. How is that not an admission. Slater said even this morning that Collins was a close personal friend.

Please.. show me any denial apart from the typical character attacks on Hager... which I personally don't have a whole lot of time for. But on the balance of probably would be more inclined to believe what he has said more than anything coming out of Slaters mouth.

I thought you would, and you did. You missed the point I was making. A lack of a denial is nothing more than just that, a lack of a denial. It does not speak "volumes", it actually does absolutely nothing, unless you are looking for something, which you clearly are.

This is all just a stupid distraction from what should be happening, politicians trying to make our country better.

networkn

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#1110054 17-Aug-2014 19:37

BarTender:
cyril7: Hi, I normally dont get drawn on political stuff, but honestly, it seems no one hacked anything, instead Labour whom seem asleep at the wheel left it hanging, knowingly or not, for anyone interested to have a butchers at. They have no one to blame except those IT staff responsible for their tech, and presumably any officers in control of those staff.

Cyril

So ya know you left your front door open.. had a good look around your house and took lots of photos before I left. Then I announced your fetish for master filters. That's all your fault and I don't need to take any responsibilities for my actions and consequential activities I did afterwards. I absolve all responsibility because you left your front door open.

And if he came out into the public arena complaining you had done so, he would be getting exactly as much sympathy as Labour is getting now (none from anyone with more than 3 brain cells), and about as much mocking for being so stupid.

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#1110055 17-Aug-2014 19:45

networkn:
BarTender:
cyril7: Hi, I normally dont get drawn on political stuff, but honestly, it seems no one hacked anything, instead Labour whom seem asleep at the wheel left it hanging, knowingly or not, for anyone interested to have a butchers at. They have no one to blame except those IT staff responsible for their tech, and presumably any officers in control of those staff.

Cyril

So ya know you left your front door open.. had a good look around your house and took lots of photos before I left. Then I announced your fetish for master filters. That's all your fault and I don't need to take any responsibilities for my actions and consequential activities I did afterwards. I absolve all responsibility because you left your front door open.

And if he came out into the public arena complaining you had done so, he would be getting exactly as much sympathy as Labour is getting now (none from anyone with more than 3 brain cells), and about as much mocking for being so stupid.

IANAL but I am fairly sure entering a persons house is still breaking and entering. Much like there are laws around unauthorised access of a computer. Yes Labour techs were complete muppets for their lax security. Certainly doesn't justify what WhaleOil did, nor does it excuse that one of the senior National staffers and their IT support were in on it too.

I had believed that people within positions of power should behave better than that. Sad you don't share that view.

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#1110059 17-Aug-2014 19:52

I had believed that people within positions of power should behave better than that. Sad you don't share that view.

Yes I agree, but this is politics, history is littered with underhanded crap that comes out at election time, watergate anyone

Cyril

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