Moment of Truth?

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Mad Scientist
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#1131082 17-Sep-2014 22:24

oh dear let's not leave the house coz the drones and g glasses are everywhere!

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testha

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#1131084 17-Sep-2014 22:29

Geektastic:

Use Tor then if it concerns you so much, or VPN.

Given this is a tekkie forum, I would have expected more people suggesting ways to beat the NSA than I would whingey wooing about how nasty it all is....

I thought tech peeps lived and breathed sticking it to the System!

I know of ways to circumvent the surveillance, a lot of people in this forum know of them. I mean after all its my/our job to know about these things.

But somehow some people think that terrorists dont know how to use them and claim that mass surveillance is the way to catch them. I would think that the smart ones, the dangerous ones also know about these methods.

You just gave the perfect reason why terrorists cant be sole the reason for all this push to mass surveillance.

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#1131100 17-Sep-2014 22:58

ajobbins: The media should have been having a feild day today, but there was far less coverage than I expected.

They kind of did have a field day that day. KDc lectured the media and told them to "GO DO YOUR JOB!". So they did. Yesterday they pointed out on both major channels that the big reveal on Key's memory was a lot less than expected. Smart move there Kim. Not.

Some very specific and targeted questions can now be asked, and the PM's reaction and responses should be carefully analysed.

There are many inconsistencies even so far. Also it's worth remembering Key will be having his arm twisted pretty hard by the American administration at this point. Possibly on both topics.

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#1131104 17-Sep-2014 23:11

So in the USA they had thing where the NSA head mislead the American public during a public inquiry and then they all found out later about the massive metadata collection.

Has anyone asked the primeminister about metadata yet? specifically bulk call records and the like?[*]

Btw does anyone else lol hearing about the prime minister saying that he has asked the GCSB chief if there are any NSA bases in New Zealand and the answer is no?

[*]Edit: I just watched the Campbell Live item. The PM did say no on metadata I think, but considering the context was mainly the southern cross cable maybe there is still wiggle room.

Technofreak

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#1131128 18-Sep-2014 04:57

BarTender:
Much as I seriously dislike dotcom... Would any of the below have been admitted by John Key had Monday not occured?

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/254849/key-makes-surveillance-concessions
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10508710/NSA-spying-can-t-be-ruled-out-PM
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11326387

Fair question. I'd say probably not.

However if you want to go down that line of questioning you need to ask, "Would it have been any different if it had been David Cunliffe, Helen Clarke, or anyone else in John Keys place? I'd say the answer would still be "Probably not".

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Technofreak

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#1131129 18-Sep-2014 05:07

testha:
Technofreak:

Forgive me if I misunderstood what you wrote here, but it certainly reads to me that you see your freedoms are being slowly taken away by the surveillance that has been alleged.

What was I supposed to understand by your comment I've quoted.

My right of privacy. Being free to communicate privately, educate and inform myself - without being monitored, analysed, judged or blackmailed.

There is also thing called chilling effect that can lead to self-censorship. Both are tools that are being used to control public opinion. A lot of studies have been done that show how effective these are. If you think you are alone with your opinion you are less likely to speak out about it, hence creating a seemingly uniform opinion increasing it even more.

You haven't lost any freedoms.

As for privacy, you don't think Google etc aren't "monitoring and analysing" you and probably know more about you then the government?

I am yet to see any judgement and blackmailing from the government.

You also have the freedom to go somewhere else where there is less "monitoring and analysing".

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BarTender

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#1131131 18-Sep-2014 06:27

Technofreak:
BarTender:
Much as I seriously dislike dotcom... Would any of the below have been admitted by John Key had Monday not occured?

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/254849/key-makes-surveillance-concessions
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10508710/NSA-spying-can-t-be-ruled-out-PM
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11326387

Fair question. I'd say probably not.

However if you want to go down that line of questioning you need to ask, "Would it have been any different if it had been David Cunliffe, Helen Clarke, or anyone else in John Keys place? I'd say the answer would still be "Probably not".

Again with the partisan politics. I would be asking these questions of the government of the day no matter who they were. Said that enough times but you and a number of other posters seem to always bring it back to a labour vs national thing which it just so isn't. The problem is that much of it has occurred within the last 6 years.

And one thing I know for certain is now the lid has been blown off the chances and terms of reference for the detailed enquiry from the government of the day couldn't be more different.

and

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#1131135 18-Sep-2014 07:12

Wow internet mana has thrown the gauntlet.

If labour goes close, they will want to govern. Only possible with a complex deal with everyone non right. Yes they will need to deal with internet mana. Who wants kdc to stay and bring in snowden and possibly assange??

Our economy is going to be stuffed if the US boycotts us. The only outcome is
I see is China and Russia buying up our country outright

Game changer for me and my children and their children's children

Technofreak

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#1131136 18-Sep-2014 07:12

BarTender:

Again with the partisan politics. I would be asking these questions of the government of the day no matter who they were. Said that enough times but you and a number of other posters seem to always bring it back to a labour vs national thing which it just so isn't. The problem is that much of it has occurred within the last 6 years.

And one thing I know for certain is now the lid has been blown off the chances and terms of reference for the detailed enquiry from the government of the day couldn't be more different.

Show me where I've made this into a Labour V National thing. You will note I said above David Cunliffe, Helen Clarke or anyone else, that was meant to encompass people like Winston Peters, Russell Norman Peter Sharples et al.

We have only ever had either a Labour or National government for the last 60 or so years so it's hard compare what might or might not have happened with any other party or group.

You attempt to make it seem you are partisan and accuse me of being biased then make this statement "The problem is that much of it has occurred within the last 6 years." Who has been the government for the last six years? If that's not making it into a Labour V National thing I don't know what is.

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Batman

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#1131137 18-Sep-2014 07:13

Thankfully I am registered to work in Australia ... fingers crossed

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#1131140 18-Sep-2014 07:25

If this Moment of rumour, innuendo and lies actually succeeds in derailing this election I wonder what the threads will be like on this Forum when people wake up and realise our country has been wrecked and KDC et al have moved on to fulfil their narcissism

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#1131144 18-Sep-2014 07:46

I think some of the points made are worthy pursuing but more of how the information is to be used, by who and how will we ensure it isn't misused.

I think this thread has got sidetracked with people using it to push their political views which clouds the issues. I don't believe you would find any political party not use this data if the controls weren't properly in place.

I'm not worried that info is being collected or how just as long as it is used for the reasons of National security or criminal wrong doing. To say we shouldn't be gathering info is naive given the age we live in and the threats that are there and we have seen overseas. If the data helps to prevent this or catch criminals br8ing it on I say but at least make sure that the data is used by the right people for the right reason's.

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#1131146 18-Sep-2014 07:49

jeffnz: I think some of the points made are worthy pursuing but more of how the information is to be used, by who and how will we ensure it isn't misused.

I think this thread has got sidetracked with people using it to push their political views which clouds the issues. I don't believe you would find any political party not use this data if the controls weren't properly in place.

I'm not worried that info is being collected or how just as long as it is used for the reasons of National security or criminal wrong doing. To say we shouldn't be gathering info is naive given the age we live in and the threats that are there and we have seen overseas. If the data helps to prevent this or catch criminals br8ing it on I say but at least make sure that the data is used by the right people for the right reason's.

The problem is that half the people here wouldn't believe it was being "used by the right people, for the right reasons" no matter what evidence they were presented with. They all want to wear tin hats and spent hours espousing the evils of data collection in general regardless of how or what or for what reason.

It's exhausting.

As far as I am concerned if you are that worried about it, move to a country where this doesn't happen..

Oh wait....

MrJonathanNZ

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#1131147 18-Sep-2014 07:53

The scaremongering in this thread is amazing.

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#1131152 18-Sep-2014 08:02

I'd rather have nuclear subs than FBI's most wanted

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