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144 posts

Master Geek
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  #1128930 15-Sep-2014 11:47
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I have no time for this ambush style of politics at all and Bryan Gould is just another left wing blogger these days. Greenwald worked with others on a series of articles that won the Pulitzer for public service, for publishing stolen documents ........ 

"In June 2013 Greenwald became widely known after The Guardian published the first of a series of reports detailing United States and British global surveillance programs, based on classified documents disclosed by Edward Snowden. The series on which Greenwald worked, along with others, won the 2014 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service" (wikipedia)

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Master Geek
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  #1128932 15-Sep-2014 11:49
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I should add in this case with Greenwald, paid to ambush with stolen documents that I doubt will categorically prove anything but will yet again be the flinging of mud in the hope that some sticks for long enough to have some effect.

 
 
 
 




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  #1128934 15-Sep-2014 11:51
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http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2014/09/15/gordon-campbell-on-the-glenn-greenwald-revelations/

And another excellent summary of what has occurred within the last few years.

So perhaps the good question is.. is key the man with his finger on the pulse so knew about the KDC raid and lied.. or not and thus how come he shutdown the pervasive metadata gathering that the GCSB were wanting to do.




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  #1128939 15-Sep-2014 11:57
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BarTender: http://www.bryangould.com/john-key-the-end-game/

Very interesting post. Just wish some of the people who post on here would actually read it and take it on board.


Bryan Gould: The whole point of democracy is that we should put in place a government that properly represents our interests and that we can trust with that power.

Completely agree with this statement. Problem is, it's not represented by any grouping of politicians.

dwl

366 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1128940 15-Sep-2014 11:58
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manaia: So there is a chance (albeit small) that tonight's meeting could be the catalyst for the unzipping and collapse of the Five Eyes agreement and the world-wide US surveillance state, starting with dirty John, and you guys (with honourable exceptions: thank you, turnin) can only say it's boring and Dotcom is dodgy? Guess it is time I stopped looking to Geekzone for thought leadership...

I'm sorry you feel this forum is lacking thought.  This thread is titled "Moment of Truth?" and of course there will be differences of opinions, especially with the political motivation. I don't share the view above that seems to imply that the collapse of US state surveillance may somehow be a wonderful thing but I fully respect the rights of others to have that view.

What I have seen so far in this thread is the post from vexxxboy which makes a lot of sense to me and hopefully others have at least read it. What happened in 2009 may still be relevant but we are now in 2014. The seeds are probably now planted for a NZ government (whatever political persuasion) to be more invasive into our personal lives but I believe there are real threats out there.

What I do know is the world is a cot case in some areas.  Look at the young boy from Gaza when asked what he wanted to grow up to be - answer, suicide bomber.  Around the world the fundamentalists through history have taken actions we may find abhorrent.  The threats may be small, especially to NZ, but they are real.

Those in the telco industry who work with security are exposed to more details than the rest of us we will ever see about attempts to steal and undermine, especially from offshore.  My view is this security work isn't just a facade to create jobs but I guess others might say the government has no role in any spying. As per my earlier post I feel actions like scanning of Gmail by a private company should be more of a concern.

Do I trust the government (party in power) to not also look after their own interests for re-election? No.  Do I trust the National or Labour or any other party not to score political points by backdoor means? No.  Do I trust the motives of Kim Dotcom with this Moment of Truth? No.

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Master Geek
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  #1128944 15-Sep-2014 12:00
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BarTender, best you declare the political links of those you quote as well.

Gordon Campbell was until recently media and research officer for the Greens.

No barrow pushing there though I'm sure!

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  #1128947 15-Sep-2014 12:01
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this whole thing is an attempt to derail our election and government by people with little connection or genuine interest in NZ.




Mike

 

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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


 
 
 
 


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  #1128950 15-Sep-2014 12:04
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KiwiNZ: this whole thing is an attempt to derail our election and government by people with little connection or genuine interest in NZ.

Or perhaps keep something bigger and/or more important out of the media.





Sometimes what you don't get is a blessing in disguise!

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  #1128951 15-Sep-2014 12:04
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No names no pack drill but I can say that, from first hand government experience in NZ, China most certainly has shall we say an unhealthy interest in all manner of electronic matters in NZ.







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  #1128959 15-Sep-2014 12:11
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Seakiwi: BarTender, best you declare the political links of those you quote as well.

Gordon Campbell was until recently media and research officer for the Greens.

No barrow pushing there though I'm sure!


No political links myself and people are free to read or not read his post...

But in my view he does make a lot of valid points. And really it comes down to a simple situation.

If Key is the PM with his finger on the GCSB Pulse as the minister in charge I understand why he would have shutdown the metadata analysis desires of the GCSB.
Then if that is the case why wouldn't he know anything about the KDC raid. As unless I missed something those sorts of activities don't happen every day especially when the NSA and FBI were brought in for support.

You can't really have it both ways don't you think???




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Ultimate Geek

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  #1128968 15-Sep-2014 12:33
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I can't be bothered reading the entire four pages of this thread.  Here's some things for you to consider.

Unless you are encrypting your Internet traffic then any one can read it.  There is nothing secure about the entire Internet Stack, from layer one right up to layer eight.

It's a moot point whether the GCSB monitor the Internet cables at our end, the other ends are monitored.

The GCSB have the ability to get "the metadata" from all tecos and ISP when needed anyway.

You saying you have no political links is irrelevant because you don't have enough courage of your conviction to identify yourself.  For all anyone knows you're just a I-M shill.

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Wannabe Geek


  #1128979 15-Sep-2014 13:01
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Anyone know if there is going to be a live feed? or is this aired on TV?

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  #1128981 15-Sep-2014 13:03
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skewkus: Anyone know if there is going to be a live feed? or is this aired on TV?

It will be streamed live on Kim's website if I remember correctly.





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  #1128983 15-Sep-2014 13:06
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mattwnz: If it was so important , why have they waited for so long to release it, when they could have told us when it was discovered. Releasing it in election week, come on.

 

Kim dot com  is again try to influence the election.  Didn't for with the Hager stolen emails so trying something else..




Regards,

Old3eyes




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  #1128984 15-Sep-2014 13:10
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Glassboy: I can't be bothered reading the entire four pages of this thread.  Here's some things for you to consider.

Unless you are encrypting your Internet traffic then any one can read it.  There is nothing secure about the entire Internet Stack, from layer one right up to layer eight.

It's a moot point whether the GCSB monitor the Internet cables at our end, the other ends are monitored.

The GCSB have the ability to get "the metadata" from all tecos and ISP when needed anyway.

You saying you have no political links is irrelevant because you don't have enough courage of your conviction to identify yourself.  For all anyone knows you're just a I-M shill.


I think the whole point is that Key is arguing the GCSB can only get metadata under a LI Warrant. That requires at least a shred of evidence to indicate that the individual is up to no good.
What I think Greenwald is saying is that isn't true and there is indiscriminate/wholesale gathering of metadata by the GCSB.

Since before Friday there was a blanket statement there wasn't then during the weekend Key said the GCSB has plans well underway before he stopped them.

Who do you believe more sincd anyone who really knows would never be able to say since it would land them in jail.




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