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Devastation by stupidity
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  #2379608 21-Dec-2019 11:37
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nathan:

My opinion doesn’t matter. What matters is Congress 2/3 support for convicting Trump in the Senate.

 

Like others here, I don't quite get what you are about. It would be nice for those of us who despise Trump if the Senate did convict him, but nobody actually expects that to happen unless something really monumental occurs, and nobody did when the impeachment process was started. When people of good faith see laws being broken and standards being trampled on and something they believe in being desecrated and denigrated, they have to make a choice whether to ignore it and the damage being done, or honour their beliefs by making a stand, even if the odds are against them. Those supporting impeachment have made a stand. They have declared that they cannot in good conscience let Trump ride roughshod over the norms and values of basic human decency. Impeachment is a statement of where they stand and what they believe in. It is a refusal to let Trump's corruption wash over them unopposed. This is what gives it value and importance, whether it succeeds or not. They are saying that what Trump and his enablers are doing isn't right. They are drawing a line.

 

Apart from that, there is also the considerable possibility that the impeachment process in itself may pry loose yet more incriminating details, either from Trump's own undisciplined tweets or from eventual witness testimony and document release. The Senate does not need to convict Trump in order for the trial to damage his re-election prospects. This cannot be a bad thing. As even Fox news is forced to report unflattering things about Trump, at least some of his voters may have to reconsider just what it is they are voting for.

 

Impeachment is a good thing. It is an inescapable consequence of Trump's own misbehaviour. To not impeach would be to imply approval of that misbehaviour. Impeachment is a matter of conscience and it is to the credit of the Democrats that they have demonstrated theirs.

 

 

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2379609 21-Dec-2019 11:41
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Remove a post by @geekIT. Off topic discussion and this kind of comment is not needed here. Talk what you want about Trump but don't attack other users or make comments like that one. 





 

 

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  #2379615 21-Dec-2019 11:56
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Well, you're the Boss.

 

But I don't think it's non-partisan, or constructive, to describe this discussion as an "...echo chamber thread of Trump hate..."

 

Just saying...





'Ask not what you can do for your country: ask what you can do for me'. Donald J.Trump. US President 2016 - 2020.

 

 

 

 


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  #2379619 21-Dec-2019 12:13
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geekIT:

 

Well, you're the Boss.

 

But I don't think it's non-partisan, or constructive, to describe this discussion as an "...echo chamber thread of Trump hate..."

 

Just saying...

 

 

Really? You know too well this is not what you wrote in the removed post. You directly said someone else's explanation was wrong, with not so much evidence as a link to support your post. The user in question lives in an area famous for their air museum (which I have visited) so there was no reason to try and discredit him just because of a photo that you tried to claim was something else.

 

This stops now or you will have a nice holiday until next year.





 

 

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  #2379620 21-Dec-2019 12:14
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freitasm: ... Talk what you want about Trump but don't attack other users or make comments like that one. 

 

 


This opinion piece is 5 months old, but still completely relevant ...

 

Don't let Trump divide us.  😐

 

 

 

The Hill - Donald Trump: 'The Great Divider'

 

By Bill Schneider, opinion contributor - 28 July 2019 

 


Why is Donald Trump different from all other presidents? 

 

Because he deliberately divides the country for political gain. 

 

It’s his strategy for governing. He’s “The Great Divider.”

 

Trump never pretended to be a healer. He saw the country’s division as a political opportunity he could exploit.

 

It worked for him in 2016. He expects it to work for him again in 2020.

 

I’m going to do it the same way I did it the first time,” Trump told ABC News. 

 

Not by broadening his support the way most incumbents do when they run for a second term. By hardening it. ...

 





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  #2379644 21-Dec-2019 15:40
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The Washington Post - Impeachment live updates: Pelosi invites Trump to deliver State of the Union, potentially during his Senate trial

 

breaking

 


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on Friday invited Trump to deliver the State of the Union address on Feb. 4, potentially during a Senate impeachment trial. 

 

Trump promptly accepted the invitation.

 

The invitation comes amid uncertainty regarding the resolution of Trump’s impeachment.  ...

 



 





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Devastation by stupidity
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  #2379653 21-Dec-2019 17:08
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The Great Pretender (apologies to the Platters)

 

Oh-oh, yes I’m the great pretender
Pretending that I’m doing well
My need is such I pretend too much
That I won’t end up in a cell

 

Oh-oh yes I’m the great pretender
Adrift in a world of my own
I’ve played the game but to my endless shame
I’m reaping what I have sown

 

Too real is this feeling of make-believe
Too real when I feel what my lies can’t conceal

 

Yes, I’m the great pretender
I claim that I’m rich when I’m not
You can bet I’m deeply in debt
I  should give my crimes some more thought
But only if I might get caught

 

Too real is my hell of make-believe
Can’t spell but can tell that it won’t end well

 

Yes, I’m the great pretender
While tweeting my anger and gall
I pretend to be what I’m not, you see
Unimpeached and respected by all
A genius who’s building a WALL!

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  #2379664 21-Dec-2019 17:46
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nathan: My opinion doesn’t matter. What matters is Congress 2/3 support for convicting Trump in the Senate.

Dems need to get their shi* together and find a candidate that can beat Donald. I didn’t see any candidate on the Politico debate last night that will win. Especially if it’s Biden. That will simply gift another 4 years to Trump.

 

Actually @nathan I disagree here. You have been an ardent supporter of Trump and I am trying to understand why.

 

I'm also interested why you keep on diverting to other topics rather than actually answering the fairly simple question I asked. Perhaps a even simpler question.

 

Should democratically elected politicians ever be able to hold the elected leader to account for egregious behaviour now or ever into the future? Or is there no point in it as effectively the president is king and above any and all laws and the electorate only has a chance to do something about it every election cycle?





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  #2379673 21-Dec-2019 18:11
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BarTender:

 

nathan: My opinion doesn’t matter. What matters is Congress 2/3 support for convicting Trump in the Senate.

Dems need to get their shi* together and find a candidate that can beat Donald. I didn’t see any candidate on the Politico debate last night that will win. Especially if it’s Biden. That will simply gift another 4 years to Trump.

 

Actually @nathan I disagree here. You have been an ardent supporter of Trump and I am trying to understand why.

 

I'm also interested why you keep on diverting to other topics rather than actually answering the fairly simple question I asked. Perhaps a even simpler question.

 

Should democratically elected politicians ever be able to hold the elected leader to account for egregious behaviour now or ever into the future? Or is there no point in it as effectively the president is king and above any and all laws and the electorate only has a chance to do something about it every election cycle?

 

 

Feel free to disagree.

 

I'm not a Republican, nor a Democrat, and not a Trump supporter.  I'm an Independent.

 

No one is above the law.

 

One of the major reasons Trump is president is because the DNC is clearly corrupt, and they choose to put up a fatally flawed candidate, Hilary, and still cannot be honest with themselves about why they lost the election.


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  #2379703 21-Dec-2019 20:52
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nathan: Feel free to disagree.

 

I'm not a Republican, nor a Democrat, and not a Trump supporter.  I'm an Independent.

 

No one is above the law.

 

Huh???

 

How does that reconcile against?

 

You can't hate a President out of office. Dems should focus on Trumps failures, the promises that were not kept.  Instead all we hear is this esoteric debate about military aid to Ukraine, a country most Americans could not even identify on a map, fixated on his values - hes a racist, hes a sexist etc.  Fixation on his values has the problem, of they tried that in 2016 and it failed miserably, and it also makes his voters want to vote for him even more, because you're questioning their beliefs and attacking them by labeling them with crazy labels like either being racist or turning a blind eye to racism by simply voting for them. Thats the exact opposite of what Dems should be doing when you're trying to win voters back.

 

Either you think no one is above the law, or you don't.

 

And if it is clear evidence including ignoring on lawful subpoenas... Isn't that acting above the law?

 

No one is above the law, unless they break the law in some esoteric way extorting another country by withholding aid, then the law doesn't matter and they should just ignore it.

 

Seems like you have very contradictory views here.

 

 





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  #2379707 21-Dec-2019 21:08
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I think what Nathan is saying is that Dems are using something that the average American don't give a damn about ("Ukraine?") andthe GOP won't vote to remove Trump anyway, so why spend time on this when Trump will just use it as a badge of honour (he already started, from tweet below)?

 

 

Meanwhile, they come up with weak candidates to nomination. At this point, Trump is very strong and he's running the show for re-election. I'd say his chances of getting the presidency again are very high.





 

 

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  #2379713 21-Dec-2019 21:22
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freitasm: ... Meanwhile, [Democrats] come up with weak candidates to nomination. At this point, Trump is very strong and he's running the show for re-election. I'd say his chances of getting the presidency again are very high.

 



 

Agreed.

 

The Democrats lost the 2016 election because they had weak candidates, and were complacent.

 

Trump won by default, with appalling and ongoing consequences.

 

Looking from the outside in, the 2020 Democratic candidates don't look much better than four years ago - but at least the Dems are now less complacent.

 

I hate to say it, but we could very easily get a second dose of Trump.

 

Remember, this is the country that elected George W. Bush TWICE.

 

 

 





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  #2379730 21-Dec-2019 22:41
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Sideface:

 

 

freitasm: ... Meanwhile, [Democrats] come up with weak candidates to nomination. At this point, Trump is very strong and he's running the show for re-election. I'd say his chances of getting the presidency again are very high.

 



 

Agreed.

 

The Democrats lost the 2016 election because they had weak candidates, and were complacent.

 

Trump won by default, with appalling and ongoing consequences.

 

Looking from the outside in, the 2020 Democratic candidates don't look much better than four years ago - but at least the Dems are now less complacent.

 

I hate to say it, but we could very easily get a second dose of Trump.

 

Remember, this is the country that elected George W. Bush TWICE.

 

 

incumbent presidents do indeed usually win reelection

 

but appalling?

 

The consequences haven't been appalling for American voters.

 

Trumps conservative populism appeals to working-class voters with his anti-globalist message.

 

57 percent of Americans said they are better off financially since Trump took office, meanwhile:

 

  • Almost 4 million jobs created since election.
  • More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in history.
  • 400,000 manufacturing jobs since election.
  • Manufacturing jobs growing at the fastest rate in more than 3 decades.
  • Economic growth last quarter hit 4.2 percent.
  • New unemployment claims recently hit a 49-year low.
  • Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded.
  • African-American unemployment has recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.
  • Hispanic-American unemployment is at the lowest rate ever recorded.
  • Asian-American unemployment recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.
  • Women’s unemployment recently reached the lowest rate in 65 years.
  • Youth unemployment has recently hit the lowest rate in nearly half a century.
  • Lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma.
  • Veterans’ unemployment recently reached its lowest rate in nearly 20 years.
  • Almost 3.9 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps.
  • 95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future—the highest ever.
  • Biggest package of tax cuts and reforms in history. 
  • etc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Devastation by stupidity
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  #2379738 21-Dec-2019 23:37
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My question would be how much of that actually is due to Trump's policies. Economic shifts can be slow to follow political developments. Maybe Trump is just benefiting from Obama's far-sightedness.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2379759 22-Dec-2019 08:26
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nathan:
  • Almost 4 million jobs created since election.
  • ..
  • etc

As most teachers would say: "show your work." You know how to create an unnumbered list, so you should know how to include a hyperlink.

Regarding "Trump's" creation of jobs, the economy does not work on quick timescale. There are natural ups and downs.

Trump is quick to jump onto any success, and to lay blame on literally everyone else if there's a downturn.

New York Times: Amid Recession Worries, Trump Points Finger at American Businesses

Washington Post: Who will Trump blame if we have a recession?

"Now, everything good that happens in the economy is his doing alone, and everything bad that happens is the fault of someone who is trying to undermine him."

Business Insider: Half of Americans would blame Trump for a recession if the economy tanks under his watch

And as you say "etc."


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