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  #2497106 2-Jun-2020 23:08
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Trump is the result of mostly a bunch of uneducated, racist, bigoted, and sad white men (predominantly) lashing out over the end of the historic miracle across two generations (post WWII and boomer generations) where the relatively uneducated working in low level jobs managed to attain a standard of living that was hitherto unknown throughout the course of human history for people of such social status. That miracle occurred as a result of things such as massive government spending post WWII, progressive policies, and the ability to exploit the social structures that enabled them to profit from the plight of minorities. As civil rights reforms and globalisation gradually chipped away at that miracle, these people perceived themselves as having lost what they were entitled to and felt disenfranchised when it's really just other people within and outside of the US getting a more fair go.

 

Trump is not in any shape or form a friend of the workers. The guy is a trickle up economics adherent prancing out in drag pretending to be battling for the little guy. And the overwhelmingly uneducated and stupid hard right constituents bought it. Whether those people like it or not, their manufacturing jobs aren't coming back and you won't be able to afford a big house with a perfectly manicured lawn in most places whilst driving a bus.

 

 


neb

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  #2497126 2-Jun-2020 23:34
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Read the second paragraph of this Wikipedia entry for Lafayette Square before it gets edited out again :-).

 
 
 
 


neb

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  #2497152 2-Jun-2020 23:56
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dejadeadnz:

Whether those people like it or not, their manufacturing jobs aren't coming back and you won't be able to afford a big house with a perfectly manicured lawn in most places whilst driving a bus.

 

 

And that's not just rhetoric: The US ranks just below Lithuania in terms of social mobility (World Economic Forum statistics). The single most important factor to being successful in the US is making sure you choose the right parents.

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  #2497156 3-Jun-2020 00:20
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Fred99:

Not comparable.  The US Senate is protected with an "irrevocable" clause in Article 5 of the constitution giving equal suffrage for every state.  They elect two senators each into a 100 seat upper house, so that does not give equal representation for the people - a citizen in Wyoming has 67 times the voting power of a citizen in California.
Once upon a time, the system kind of worked.  Kind of like the House of Lords in UK or upper house in Aus (or monarch in NZ - signing off legislation).  It fell to pieces sharply during Obama's first term.  Democrats had a narrow senate majority, republicans filibustered / delayed passing legislation in the first two years of his term, Obama lost the senate majority in the first mid-terms (probably in part because republicans claimed he wasn't getting anything done, but also Trump & Co's endorsement of the crazy idea that Obama was an illegally appointed Muslim infiltrator born in Africa, strong condemnation by the "Tea Party" factions about Obama's response to the GFC) , to pass legislation into law from there on, he needed to get support in the upper house, to get the support he had to water down needed reforms - or throw in some gifts for republicans - or he'd have never got anything done at all except by executive order.
Now it's far worse, there's a rogue president with an administration that break laws when they like - and no will by the senate to do anything about it. So if Trump loses - but Republicans hold the senate majority, Biden's first two years are going to be doomed.



Obama and Reid played a hugely significant role in the breakdown of the senate. The whole point of an upper house was to temper the excesses of the lower house and the executive.

Reid and Obama played plenty of games with the senate rules around the fillibuster and the ACA.

Both sides of American politics are broken. The democrats are incapable of nominating an attractive candidate and keep nominating clowns like Biden and unelectable candidates like Clinton

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  #2497167 3-Jun-2020 05:05
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  #2497178 3-Jun-2020 07:59
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neb: Read the second paragraph of this Wikipedia entry for Lafayette Square before it gets edited out again :-).

 

It has been 'fixed' but here is the version that @neb was pointing at I believe.





The three hardest things to say: 1. I was wrong, 2. I need help, 3. Worcestershire sauce.

 

 


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  #2497264 3-Jun-2020 10:16
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neb:
dejadeadnz:

 

Whether those people like it or not, their manufacturing jobs aren't coming back and you won't be able to afford a big house with a perfectly manicured lawn in most places whilst driving a bus.

 

And that's not just rhetoric: The US ranks just below Lithuania in terms of social mobility (World Economic Forum statistics). The single most important factor to being successful in the US is making sure you choose the right parents.

 

The USA does not rank well for any metric: Health, Education, Democracy, Capitalism, Freedom of the press, welfare, Crime, Violent Crime, Corruption, Happiness, etc etc etc. 

 

The USA talks a big game, but has never delivered .


 
 
 
 


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  #2497282 3-Jun-2020 10:47
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sir1963:

 

The USA talks a big game, but has never delivered .

 

 

But in 1937 it had 'the highest standard of living in the world'.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2497296 3-Jun-2020 11:18
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Rikkitic:

 

sir1963:

 

The USA talks a big game, but has never delivered .

 

 

But in 1937 it had 'the highest standard of living in the world'.

 

 

 

 

May be, but since then they had Obama and Hillary.


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  #2497297 3-Jun-2020 11:18
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There was an interesting documentary series recently on IPlayer by the historian Lucy Worsley debunking myths about the US War of Independence, the Civil War and a third I can't remember.

 

Apparently the Civil War was not about ending slavery. Lincoln was only concerned that the southern states would come to dominate the northern states economically because of the use of slaves on sugar plantations so he wanted to abolish slavery to reduce their economic clout. Nothing to do with freeing slaves. And after the war many slaves who were nominally free were forced into buying small plots of land on the plantations with loans from the owners they could never repay so were pretty much back where they were before the war.

 

And as Spike Lee has said America was founded on the genocide of the indigenous population followed by importation of a large slave population. How could you ever expect that to turn out well?

 

Add to that a constitution written by privileged white, land owning, slave owning middle aged men and you start to wonder how it managed to last this long.

 

And lastly if Trump had lived in the Wild West he would have been a snake oil salesman. And a lot of people bought snake oil.

 

 


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  #2497300 3-Jun-2020 11:25
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linw:

 

Rikkitic:

 

But in 1937 it had 'the highest standard of living in the world'.

 

 

May be, but since then they had Obama and Hillary.

 

 

They also had Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump.

 

Hillary was never a president.





 

 

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  #2497303 3-Jun-2020 11:36
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I am wondering if I should have put a sarcasm tag on my post. There is a famous photo from 1937 of a bread line with a big billboard in the background showing an idealised family in a new car with a slogan boasting about America having the highest standard of living in the world. It is a perfect depression-era statement, except it turns out to not quite be true. The depressed people queuing for food were victims of a flood, not the depression. They may have also been victims of the depression, but the photo is bending the truth a little.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


neb

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  #2497357 3-Jun-2020 13:36
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sir1963:

The USA talks a big game, but has never delivered .

 

 

Someone recently made an observation that the US is great at giving you what you want but terrible at giving you what you need. Think Uber and Amazon vs. healthcare and public transport.

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  #2497365 3-Jun-2020 13:45
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floydbloke:

 

neb: Read the second paragraph of this Wikipedia entry for Lafayette Square before it gets edited out again :-).

 

It has been 'fixed' but here is the version that @neb was pointing at I believe.

 

 

Thanks for the link. Great edit. I'd forgotten that Wikipedia stuff can be peer-reviewed. 





'Ask not what you can do for your country: ask what you can do for me'. Donald J.Trump. US President 2016 - 2020.

 

 

 

 


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  #2497385 3-Jun-2020 14:17
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freitasm:

 

linw:

 

May be, but since then they had Obama and Hillary.

 

 

They also had Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump.

 

Hillary was never a president.

 

 

Looks like my attempt at humour didn't work. Just reflecting on Trump's blaming everything on those two. Don't forget, he doesn't need any logic!


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