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nathan
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  #2560344 8-Sep-2020 15:02
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Fred99:

 

He didn't blatantly lie about "Mandela".

 

He lied by making an exaggerated claim that he was "arrested" when he and the UN ambassador were "stopped and briefly detained".

 

Meanwhile, this becomes a Republican "talking point" when Trump has been accused of saying:

 

"Mandela f---ed the whole country up. Now it's a s---hole. F--- Mandela," Cohen claims Trump said. "He was no leader." 

 

Which would be 100% true to form from the blatant racist Trump is - a racist who launched his political career by loudly backing the "birther conspiracy" (with his nasty third wife in full voice)

 

You need to get a grip on reality @nathan.  You're becoming a troll.

 

 

I have a perfect grip on reality, more than most it seems.

I’m not a troll. I’m an armchair political scientist, an American worker and an American voter with skin in the game

Yes Trump tells lies. Those are the bad lies.

Yes Biden tells lies. Those are the good lies

 

Its not a Republican talking point, I followed the Dem Primaries here closely and road-tripped thru a few states before and after Super Tuesday.  I thought it was interesting Biden told that wee little fib during the primary campaign, because it goes along with a pattern of lying, plagiarism, embellishments, saying you didn’t say or do things you did, stealing others peoples live stories as your own etc

 

And politicians are the least trust worthy profession?

One says racist things for 4 years as President. The other enacts racist policies and laws over his 47 year career.





populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


Fred99
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  #2560359 8-Sep-2020 15:26
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nathan:

 

I have a perfect grip on reality, more than most it seems.

I’m not a troll. I’m an armchair political scientist, an American worker and an American voter with skin in the game

Yes Trump tells lies. Those are the bad lies.

Yes Biden tells lies. Those are the good lies

 

Its not a Republican talking point, I followed the Dem Primaries here closely and road-tripped thru a few states before and after Super Tuesday.  I thought it was interesting Biden told that wee little fib during the primary campaign, because it goes along with a pattern of lying, plagiarism, embellishments, saying you didn’t say or do things you did, stealing others peoples live stories as your own etc

 

And politicians are the least trust worthy profession?

One says racist things for 4 years as President. The other enacts racist policies and laws over his 47 year career.

 

 

It most certainly is a Republican talking point, being resurrected now as "projection and "whataboutism" on far-right "news" sites pending release of Cohen's book.

 

As well as saying racist things for 4 years as President, Trump spent the 8 years leading up to that attacking Obama with "birtherism". Then there's this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump .

 

The least trust-worthy profession?  Maybe bankrupt casino owners, "university" owners, teen beauty pageant owners, wall builders, money launderers, reality TV stars should be added to a list.


 
 
 
 


nathan
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  #2560364 8-Sep-2020 15:40
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It seems like we are in violent agreement.

A lie is a lie. Trump and Biden both lie

But its ok if Biden lies, because he’s not Trump

And Biden’s actual 47 year record of writing and voting for racist laws, is also OK, because he’s not Trump

Birtherism is stupid and Trump does himself no favors on that crazy stuff.





populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


nathan
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  #2560368 8-Sep-2020 15:53
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Rikkitic:

Fred99:


You need to get a grip on reality @nathan.  You're becoming a troll.



BECOMING! Where have you been?


 



Is calling someone a troll considered cancel-culture these days?

I think you’d find, if you were a US citizen, living in America, instead of an overseas casual observer, you might possible have a different view, based on experience, on what our elected officials have actually delivered for us over the decades.




populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


Fred99
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  #2560372 8-Sep-2020 15:58
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nathan: It seems like we are in violent agreement.

1) A lie is a lie. Trump and Biden both lie

2) But its ok if Biden lies, because he’s not Trump

3) And Biden’s actual 47 year record of writing and voting for racist laws, is also OK, because he’s not Trump

4) Birtherism is stupid and Trump does himself no favors on that crazy stuff.

 

1) Trump is by far the biggest most dangerous liar.  It's incomparable and unprecedented. 

 

2) I never said that - so stop making things up.

 

3) I call Bullsh!t on that,  If you mean things like opposing "busing" then although it was a "race" issue, opposition or support alone doesn't qualify a person as a "racist".  Trump however is a racist.

 

4) Birtherism isn't just stupid.  It's openly racist.  Because Trump is a racist.

 

We're not agreeing on much at all.

 

 


Fred99
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  #2560393 8-Sep-2020 16:05
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nathan:

I think you’d find, if you were a US citizen, living in America, instead of an overseas casual observer, you might possible have a different view, based on experience, on what our elected officials have actually delivered for us over the decades.

 

Still the strongest economy in the world, the most powerful military (several times over) - and for the past 4 years a lying racist racist authoritarian actively destroying democracy in the US, while supporting other authoritarians intent on destroying democracy globally.  

 

So what do you actually want?


freitasm
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  #2560396 8-Sep-2020 16:06
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Put it clearly: the amount of lies Trump spews everyday has by far outnumbered anything you could impute to Biden.





 

 

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Fred99
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  #2560403 8-Sep-2020 16:15
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freitasm:

 

Put it clearly: the amount of lies Trump spews everyday has by far outnumbered anything you could impute to Biden.

 

 

Yes - but then if you quantify it by an "appeal to authority" like Politifact, Snopes etc, then Breitbart etc already spent 4 years convincing people (like @nathan perhaps) that the fact checkers are mere political shills for liberals.  It's a bit like beating your head against the wall that Mexico paid for.


nathan
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  #2560411 8-Sep-2020 16:25
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freitasm:

 

Put it clearly: the amount of lies Trump spews everyday has by far outnumbered anything you could impute to Biden.

 

 

really?

 

you probably need to weigh the outcome and implications of those lies, rather than just use raw numbers of lies/false claims/mistruths and how much they offend our civilities





populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


Rikkitic
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  #2560412 8-Sep-2020 16:25
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nathan:

 


I think you’d find, if you were a US citizen, living in America, instead of an overseas casual observer, you might possible have a different view, based on experience, on what our elected officials have actually delivered for us over the decades.

 

Maybe you would find, if you lived here, that Trump is such an evil, lying, fascist, cheating SOB propped up by a despicable cadré of sycophantic sell-outs, that you would welcome, cheer on, and beg people to vote for, any other candidate regardless of perceived flaws, past indiscretions or criminal actions.

 

Biden and Trump are NOT the same. The Democrats and Republicans are NOT the same. There is a HUGE difference, and whoever warms the chair in the Oval Office after the next election will matter a great deal to us all, whether we live in America or not.

 

From your first post on this thread you have tried to sow dissension and undermine faith in the election by constantly raising doubts about the electoral process and the integrity of the Democratic candidates. Now that Biden is the Democratic candidate, you are doing everything possible to raise doubts about his integrity and honesty. Since it is impossible to make Trump look good, you try instead to argue that Biden is no better.

 

Your arguments about the electoral process, and there only being two main parties, and how Bernie Sanders would have been a better candidate, are all just attempts to confuse the issue. This is the election, These are the choices, and the rest is just meaningless BS. Biden may or may not be a liar and a hypocrite. He may even be a racist. I don't care. I don't care if he is a pizza-eating paedophile cannibal. He is still preferable to Trump. That is the choice, this is the election, and I really wish you would take all your irrelevant pointless sidesteps somewhere else, though I suppose that is too much to hope for.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


freitasm
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  #2560414 8-Sep-2020 16:28
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@nathan:

 

freitasm:

 

Put it clearly: the amount of lies Trump spews everyday has by far outnumbered anything you could impute to Biden.

 

 

really?

 

you probably need to weigh the outcome and implications of those lies, rather than just use raw numbers of lies/false claims/mistruths and how much they offend our civilities

 

 

Do you think the number and type of lies Trump is spewing daily has no influence on the civil rights in America at the moment? 

 

Do you think the number and type of lies Trump is spewing daily has no influence on the health of American citizens?





 

 

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nathan
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  #2560417 8-Sep-2020 16:32
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Fred99:

 

nathan:

I think you’d find, if you were a US citizen, living in America, instead of an overseas casual observer, you might possible have a different view, based on experience, on what our elected officials have actually delivered for us over the decades.

 

Still the strongest economy in the world, the most powerful military (several times over) - and for the past 4 years a lying racist racist authoritarian actively destroying democracy in the US, while supporting other authoritarians intent on destroying democracy globally.  

 

So what do you actually want?

 

 

Bizarre how this forum mostly still blames the symptom, Trump, instead of the cause.

 

What I want is the end to the two party system, polarization is a self-reinforcing dynamic, that means there is no effective opposition party and spiraling polarization.  This can be achieved without Constitutional amendments.

 

I'm under no illusions the elites and establishment, will ever allow this to happen, so probably a revolution and guillotines in central parks instead





populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


Rikkitic
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  #2560421 8-Sep-2020 16:40
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nathan:

 

I'm under no illusions the elites and establishment, will ever allow this to happen, so probably a revolution and guillotines in central parks instead

 

 

If so, then no purpose whatsoever is served by your continuing posts here.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


Paul1977
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  #2560425 8-Sep-2020 16:46
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America has many deep rooted systemic problems that can't all be blamed on Trump. I agree with Nathan on that one.

 

But if those problems we're an ongoing fire, then Trump is like gasoline.

 

I personally don't know that Trump is a hard-core racist. I suspect he's probably your run of the mill old white casual racist. But if appealing to white supremacists and their ilk makes him more popular and wins him more votes, he'll do it in a heartbeat. The only deep rooted ideology that Trump has is his own desire for success, power, and adoration.

 

Trump is a bizarre sort of idiot genius. The man is clearly a buffoon, but it hasn't stopped him from a) becoming President, or b) still having a very good shot at winning a second term despite all his lies, incompetence, and apparent embracing of the extreme far right.


nathan
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  #2560426 8-Sep-2020 16:47
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freitasm:

 

Do you think the number and type of lies Trump is spewing daily has no influence on the civil rights in America at the moment? 

 

Do you think the number and type of lies Trump is spewing daily has no influence on the health of American citizens?

 

 

as does pretending Biden is not a racist, nor doesn't lie.

 

It literally translates to me as, Dem lies good or OK, Republican lies bad.

 

Bidens voting record over 47 years also had actual long term influence over minorities.  Same with healthcare, or lack thereof.

 

If you're going to be fair, you need to be fair.

 

47 years of Biden lies is quite the record, and I would rather just be honest and say, 'we don't care about Bidens voting record or documented lies, because Trump is America’s existential threat'





populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


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