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Paul1977
3426 posts

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  #2560428 8-Sep-2020 16:48
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nathan:

 

Bizarre how this forum mostly still blames the symptom, Trump, instead of the cause.

 

 

There's a lot of truth in that, but Trump has become more than just a symptom - he's an accelerant.


Fred99
11128 posts

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  #2560429 8-Sep-2020 16:49
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nathan:

 

I'm under no illusions the elites and establishment, will ever allow this to happen, so probably a revolution and guillotines in central parks instead

 

 

So is that just defeatist pessimism - or more along the lines of QAnon / Bannon (all on Trump's side BTW) "inevitability of an end of times battle" and desire to get it over and done with ASAP - so that the mainly white victors establish a new global theistic empire, forever subordinating Muslims, Atheists, assorted Pagans, Communists, and Liberals?

 

 


 
 
 
 


nathan
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  #2560431 8-Sep-2020 16:52
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Rikkitic:

 

nathan:

 

I'm under no illusions the elites and establishment, will ever allow this to happen, so probably a revolution and guillotines in central parks instead

 

 

If so, then no purpose whatsoever is served by your continuing posts here.

 

 

No one needs to read them.  No one has yet been able to point out HOW I'm wrong.

 

I'd think you'd relish the chance to fine tune your Trump arguments and Biden support, so they were more accurate and defensible





populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


Rikkitic
Awrrr
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  #2560437 8-Sep-2020 17:03
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nathan:

 

I'd think you'd relish the chance to fine tune your Trump arguments and Biden support, so they were more accurate and defensible

 

 

I don't need to fine-tune them. You are the only one who can't see the difference.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


Paul1977
3426 posts

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  #2560438 8-Sep-2020 17:04
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nathan:

 

No one needs to read them.  No one has yet been able to point out HOW I'm wrong.

 

I'd think you'd relish the chance to fine tune your Trump arguments and Biden support, so they were more accurate and defensible

 

 

I don't think you're wrong per se, but surely you'd have to concede that if it's a matter of picking the lesser of two evils then no one should be voting for Trump?

 

Put it this way, who will you be voting for?


Paul1977
3426 posts

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  #2560439 8-Sep-2020 17:06
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Rikkitic:

 

I don't need to fine-tune them. You are the only one who can't see the difference.

 

 

In fairness to Nathan, there's probably about 150 million Americans who would disagree with you - many (if not most) of whom would argue that Trump is better for America than Biden.


freitasm
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  #2560442 8-Sep-2020 17:15
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nathan:

 

freitasm:

 

Do you think the number and type of lies Trump is spewing daily has no influence on the civil rights in America at the moment? 

 

Do you think the number and type of lies Trump is spewing daily has no influence on the health of American citizens?

 

 

as does pretending Biden is not a racist, nor doesn't lie.

 

It literally translates to me as, Dem lies good or OK, Republican lies bad.

 

Bidens voting record over 47 years also had actual long term influence over minorities.  Same with healthcare, or lack thereof.

 

If you're going to be fair, you need to be fair.

 

47 years of Biden lies is quite the record, and I would rather just be honest and say, 'we don't care about Bidens voting record or documented lies, because Trump is America’s existential threat'

 

 

You're creating a false dichotomy here. No one is pretending one or another doesn't lie. 

 

The number of lies coming from Trump is dangerous. The alternatives now are four more years of Trump or four years with Biden.

 

Four more years of Trump will cause America to descend into utter chaos and out of pace with neighbours and allies.





 

 

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Geekzone broadband switch | Eletricity comparison and switch | Hatch investment (NZ$ 10 bonus if NZ$100 deposited within 30 days) | Sharesies | Mighty Ape | Backblaze | Coinbase | TheMarket | My technology disclosure


 
 
 
 


Rikkitic
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  #2560445 8-Sep-2020 17:19
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Paul1977:

 

In fairness to Nathan, there's probably about 150 million Americans who would disagree with you - many (if not most) of whom would argue that Trump is better for America than Biden.

 

 

I'm not interested in being fair to Nathan. He is like Trump. He sees fairness as a weakness and uses it like a blowfly.

 


As I have previously suggested, his ideas might be more appreciated by those 150 million Americans. Here he is in a pretty small minority, fortunately.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


nathan
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  #2560446 8-Sep-2020 17:26
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Rikkitic:

nathan:


I'd think you'd relish the chance to fine tune your Trump arguments and Biden support, so they were more accurate and defensible



I don't need to fine-tune them. You are the only one who can't see the difference.


 



The only one? Try 62,984,825 American citizens who voted for change in 2016

Imagine being a voter and being told, no your opinion is wrong, just because it is, not how. And you’re stupid, because you didn’t vote for Crooked Hilary

It’s no wonder polling is hard, because the shy Trump voter isn’t a myth.

Imagine being in NZ in 2020, still with FPP, oscillating backwards and forwards between National and Labour

Imagine being one of the 91,739,344 US voters who didn’t vote, because Politicians proved through their actions, they don’t care about you, and whether you pick red or blue is irrelevant

I’ve pointed out several times why various arguments are illogical and don’t met the reality on the ground for this Independent voter.




populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


Fred99
11128 posts

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  #2560454 8-Sep-2020 17:52
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nathan:

It’s no wonder polling is hard, because the shy Trump voter isn’t a myth.

 

Well as Trump appeals to the very worst aspects of human nature, greed, hate, bigotry, and pride, it's no wonder many don't want to admit their bizarre admiration / love for an absolute monster.


nathan
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  #2560455 8-Sep-2020 17:56
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Fred99:

nathan:

It’s no wonder polling is hard, because the shy Trump voter isn’t a myth.


Well as Trump appeals to the very worst aspects of human nature, greed, hate, bigotry, and pride, it's no wonder many don't want to admit their bizarre admiration / love for an absolute monster.



Or they could be single issue voters like God-bothering anti-abortionists

Or their family has always voted Republican

Or they voted against NAFTA/TPP trade

Or lesser-of-two-evilism forced them to not support Hils

Or




populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


Fred99
11128 posts

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  #2560462 8-Sep-2020 18:21
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nathan:

Or they could be single issue voters like God-bothering anti-abortionists

Or their family has always voted Republican

Or they voted against NAFTA/TPP trade

Or lesser-of-two-evilism forced them to not support Hils

Or they could be the abject hate-filled racist morons and white supremacists that Trump endorses - by his repeated flat refusal to ever condemn them

 

FTFY.  

 

 


Rikkitic
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  #2560464 8-Sep-2020 18:35
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nathan:

Or they could be single issue voters like God-bothering anti-abortionists

Or their family has always voted Republican

Or they voted against NAFTA/TPP trade

Or lesser-of-two-evilism forced them to not support Hils

Or

 

As much as I try to avoid interacting with you, I have to wonder if you do actually see any difference between the candidates. There are two of them. They have been nominated and one will be the next president, unless something truly 'unprecedented' happens, like an asteroid striking the earth.

 

So, putting aside all your tangential perambulations, do you have any preference at all as to who becomes the next president? No crap about the two-party state, or a manipulated selection process, or past lies, or how short Tom cruise is, or any of that, just who do you see as the least undesirable in the office: Biden or Trump? Who will, or would, you vote for? No writing in Big Bird or Miss Piggy, who of the two would you choose to finish bringing the USA to its knees? Trump or Biden? Do you see any practical different at all between them? Which one gets your vote? It is a binary choice. One or the other.





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


quickymart
5714 posts

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  #2560465 8-Sep-2020 18:37
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nathan:


It’s no wonder polling is hard, because the shy Trump voter isn’t a myth.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election#Comparison_to_pre-election_forecasts

 

Many pollsters were puzzled by the failure of mainstream forecasting models to predict the outcome of the 2016 election. Some journalists compared the 2016 election to the failure of prognosticator Arthur Henning in the "Dewey Defeats Truman" incident from the 1948 presidential election. Sean Trende, writing for RealClearPolitics, wrote that many of the polls were accurate, but that the pundits' interpretation of these polls neglected polling error. Nate Silver found that the high number of undecided and third-party voters in the election was neglected in many of these models, and that many of these voters decided to vote for Trump. According to a February 2018 study by Public Opinion Quarterly, the main sources of polling error were "a late swing in vote preference toward Trump and a pervasive failure to adjust for over-representation of college graduates (who favored Clinton)," whereas the share of "shy" Trump voters (who declined to admit their support for Trump to the pollsters) proved to be negligible.


Gurezaemon
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  #2560470 8-Sep-2020 18:55
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Fred99:

 

nathan:

Or they could be single issue voters like God-bothering anti-abortionists

Or their family has always voted Republican

Or they voted against NAFTA/TPP trade

Or lesser-of-two-evilism forced them to not support Hils

Or they could be the abject hate-filled racist morons and white supremacists that Trump endorses - by his repeated flat refusal to ever condemn them

 

FTFY.  

 

 

It's never that simple. I personally know a well-educated, multi-racial family in the US - pro-choice, anti-gun, the rest of it. Fairly socially liberal, and horrified by what has happened in the recent months with police brutality. They consider Trump as repellent an individual as anyone else, but will still reluctantly vote for him because they perceive that he is better for the economy and for small business, and this will somehow lead to prosperity, fixing all that ails America.
Are they right? I don't think so. But they're certainly not racist morons.
Are there lots of people out there with similar ideas? Hell yes. We mock them and discount their ideas at our peril.





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