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Fred99
11120 posts

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  #2560477 8-Sep-2020 18:58
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Rikkitic:

 

They have been nominated and one will be the next president, unless something truly 'unprecedented' happens, like an asteroid striking the earth.

 

 

There's actually a much higher statistical chance that both might die of old-age related "natural causes" between now and January 2021.

 

One felt obliged to deny that he was having TIAs (mini-strokes) hence his recent hospital visit - forgetting that nobody suggested he was having mini-strokes - thus stupidity had him accidentally "admitting by denial" the reason for his hospital visit.  This is the stupid one - called by his devotees "The God-Emperor". We live in crazy times.

 

 


Fred99
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  #2560479 8-Sep-2020 19:03
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Gurezaemon:

 

It's never that simple. I personally know a well-educated, multi-racial family in the US - pro-choice, anti-gun, the rest of it. Fairly socially liberal, and horrified by what has happened in the recent months with police brutality. They consider Trump as repellent an individual as anyone else, but will still reluctantly vote for him because they perceive that he is better for the economy and for small business, and this will somehow lead to prosperity, fixing all that ails America.
Are they right? I don't think so. But they're certainly not racist morons.
Are there lots of people out there with similar ideas? Hell yes. We mock them and discount their ideas at our peril.

 

 

So you added another category.  Financially illiterate morons who aren't racists.  Have they looked at the state of the Trump economy? 

 

(incidentally "Economics" was given the title "The Dismal Science" after an economist suggested with quite a rational thesis that reintroduction of slavery would be a solution to overcoming poverty in impoverished colonised nations)

 

 


 
 
 
 


Gurezaemon
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  #2560485 8-Sep-2020 19:22
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Fred99:

 

Gurezaemon:

 

It's never that simple. I personally know a well-educated, multi-racial family in the US - pro-choice, anti-gun, the rest of it. Fairly socially liberal, and horrified by what has happened in the recent months with police brutality. They consider Trump as repellent an individual as anyone else, but will still reluctantly vote for him because they perceive that he is better for the economy and for small business, and this will somehow lead to prosperity, fixing all that ails America.
Are they right? I don't think so. But they're certainly not racist morons.
Are there lots of people out there with similar ideas? Hell yes. We mock them and discount their ideas at our peril.

 

So you added another category.  Financially illiterate morons who aren't racists.  Have they looked at the state of the Trump economy? 

 

(incidentally "Economics" was given the title "The Dismal Science" after an economist suggested with quite a rational thesis that reintroduction of slavery would be a solution to overcoming poverty in impoverished colonised nations)

 

 

I agree with you. Their economy is shaky to say the least. But the attraction of "lower taxes," and the fear of "big government" cannot be overstated in the US. There is a much stronger sense of "I'm not poor, I just haven't made it big yet." The idea that doing well is only as a direct result of working hard, and that if you're on welfare for any reason, then that is a reflection of your character. It's messed up.

 

Even if it means ignoring the $1500 that a family has to pay every month in health insurance, people will whine about a few more cents on the dollar being taken away from them. Not really so different to here, where people will moan about high taxes, and in the next breath complain that there aren't enough police, hospital waiting times are too long, and that the roads suck.





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Fred99
11120 posts

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  #2560490 8-Sep-2020 19:40
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Gurezaemon:

 

Not really so different to here, where people will moan about high taxes, and in the next breath complain that there aren't enough police, hospital waiting times are too long, and that the roads suck.

 

 

This is 100% true, and it really scares me as the US is large and influential, the world economy is increasingly based on a competitive model and is abandoning all collaborative models that seek to solve global problems, we're at risk of a final "race to the bottom", and I don't want any part of it.
And yes - Trump is fomenting global disaster.  He's a moron, but his enablers/advisers know exactly what they're doing.


freitasm
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  #2560494 8-Sep-2020 20:22
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Gurezaemon:

 

They consider Trump as repellent an individual as anyone else, but will still reluctantly vote for him because they perceive that he is better for the economy and for small business, and this will somehow lead to prosperity, fixing all that ails America.

 

 

People have a tendency to vote against their best interests...





 

 

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kingdragonfly
5095 posts

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  #2560503 8-Sep-2020 20:34
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When I said the American empire had fallen, it wasn't for dramatic effect.

An while I'm loathed to admit it, Nathan was correct that the US empire decline predates Trump.

I'd peg the beginning of the end at Kennedy's death, and the end of the empire at Trump's election

If America was a car on a highway, Trump would have been the highway sign saying no exit for miles.


nathan
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  #2560543 8-Sep-2020 22:31
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freitasm:

Gurezaemon:


They consider Trump as repellent an individual as anyone else, but will still reluctantly vote for him because they perceive that he is better for the economy and for small business, and this will somehow lead to prosperity, fixing all that ails America.



People have a tendency to vote against their best interests...



Who’s interests?

Maybe that American voter lost their job under globalization policies and decided to vote in a wrecking ball like Trump

Maybe that voter didn’t care about the sensibilities and civilities of doing politics in a certain way.

Maybe that voter is sick of their taxes defending German citizens whose govt won’t pay for the military budget

Maybe that voter doesn’t get offended by the same “existential threat” to democracy things this thread does, because it doesn’t affect them

Just some thoughts from a failed state in a crisis that exposes ineffectual government agencies




populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


 
 
 
 


quickymart
5703 posts

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  #2560586 9-Sep-2020 07:22
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Wow, you must be the life of the party.


nathan
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  #2560593 9-Sep-2020 07:44
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It’s silly to be so presumptuous, high and mighty and think that voters don’t know what they’re doing.




populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


Fred99
11120 posts

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  #2560618 9-Sep-2020 08:48
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nathan:

Maybe that voter doesn’t get offended by the same “existential threat” to democracy things this thread does, because it doesn’t affect them

 

Of course a threat to democracy affects them, but if it affects them "positively" they'll be happy - so long as they benefit from the regime that they helped put in place.

 

Then you end up with a fascist/authoritarian state or an oligarchy - which is where the USA is heading.

 

 


neb

neb
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  #2560757 9-Sep-2020 10:40
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I have a perfect grip on reality, more than most it seems.



Sure, but you're gripping a different reality than everyone else.

nathan
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  #2560767 9-Sep-2020 10:46
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neb:

I have a perfect grip on reality, more than most it seems.



Sure, but you're gripping a different reality than everyone else.


That’s demonstrably false
And that’s what a lot of Democrats think happened, in 2016 when they lost
And why they learned no lessons, and decided to run Hilary 2.0 in 2020




populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


kingdragonfly
5095 posts

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  #2560782 9-Sep-2020 10:55
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nathan: I have a perfect grip on reality, more than most it seems.


And Trump is a stable genius.


freitasm
BDFL - Memuneh
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  #2560785 9-Sep-2020 10:57
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The false dichotomy is showing. You claim to not support Trump but you say everything possible to discredit the only candidate with a chance of ending the chaos Trump brought to the country. 





 

 

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Sideface
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  #2560800 9-Sep-2020 11:09
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The Washington Post - Exactly what the postmaster general is accused of doing illegally

 

today

 


Postmaster General Louis DeJoy is in hot water over allegations that he broke campaign finance laws when he ran a logistics company.

 

[Former employees] told The Washington Post that they were encouraged to attend fundraisers DeJoy held and give thousands of dollars to GOP candidates. ... DeJoy engineered bonuses for these people that covered the cost of the donations ...

 

Campaign finance records suggest that this could have gone on from about 2000 to 2014. ...

 

DeJoy is accused of breaking the most fundamental campaign finance laws. ... But while other CEOs have gone to federal prison for similar crimes, that’s unlikely here. 

 

The statute of limitations for any federal crimes has probably passed for DeJoy. ...

 

 

 

 

Only the best people  😕 ...

 






Sideface


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